7 replies to this topic

[ChaosTech]

Yes there is some very universal sounding scripture in the Bible. I just keep thinking, "in eternity, in eternity." What is truly possible for eternity. Now I've heard people suggest only God is eternal, but this is crap. So is creation. There is no true cessation, end, period. Also duality, is stable and change, and God is more stable then changing, existent then nonexistent, as are we!

http://campuspress.y...erose/1129-2/#2

Edited by ChaosTech, 05 August 2018 - 12:01 PM.

[Spida]

Even although "eternity" is in fact the antithesis of time. It is nonetheless a matter of convention and unavoidable to assign it an infinite amount thereof. The only thing that is truly eternal is the Absolute. Which is the neverending dance of existence and non existence, i.e. time and no time.

A wheel within a wheel, within a wheel. The Absolute would also represent the innermost and outermost boundaries.

[Spida]

Also a thing need not be contiguously infinite to be eternal, i.e. its' existence may be fragmented or broken but recurring ad infinitum.

An analogy would be when we sleep. We enter a different state of existence where space and time are distorted and we lose ourselves, but reawaken to again become what we were.

Edited by Spida, 07 August 2018 - 01:44 PM.

[ChaosTech]

Interesting Spida. The Bible and Christians in general view both God and his creation as eternal. In fact there are two words in Greek used in the New Testament for eternal. One is God, and the chains that bind the fallen angels till judgement day in hell, and the rest of the Bible concerning heaven, earth and hell even means a relative or dependent eternity. Now I used to think God was upholding creation, but I've come to think otherwise. Energy once created can't be destroyed and the universe is constantly expanding. Showing time as a sort of even if ever so slow betterment of reality. Life, Christ, growth, love, expansion, literally creation. So using this knowledge even medieval Christian monks realized with the doctrine of infinite growth in Christian mysticism, I think the Bible calls this reality eternal for a reason, especially heaven being so close to God. A Buddhist might argue, reality is relative, therefore will begin then eventually end, or even recycle, or be frozen in a past time of God but now no more, etc. because relative and dependent they don't fully understand, thinking it illusory. Illusory is more like nothingness, which absolutely cannot exist, therefore it's none. It seems God creates negative and positive polarities, but originally these were complementary, till as a Christian call it sin, or disobeying the order of God, messed it up. How I'm not sure, but perhaps God is both negative, and positive or something like that himself. Existent but able to act or create change. No one really knows God directly, so it's all conjecture. Perhaps he surpassed mind all together and is truly unfathomable. One of the reasons I believe in Jesus actually. Jesus, especially since his incarnation, is the gateway to God. The logos in general is an interesting concept. Order, harmony, unity, love, light, life, the word or workings of the universe. By aligning ourselves to Jesus we become restored, given life. I walked about all the world religions, cause the Bible seemed crazy to me as a kid. After a while though I realized I was rediscovering what it already said piece by piece. But you gotta believe first, then give it time. He will show you things that blow your mind truly miracles. Why I believe the pagan Magick inferior. Now there is Magick, but its natural to body or soul or nature, heavens energies itself. Or gulp, hell!

[Spida]

ChaosTech, on 07 August 2018 - 02:16 AM, said:

Interesting Spida. The Bible and Christians in general view both God and his creation as eternal.

According to my own definitions of eternity and as we've talked about recently. Eternity can be described as a state absent of time, or a thing without beginning or end. So anything that involves time or change can never be eternal. Since time requires a beginning, or starting point because without this there can never be any logical progression of events yielding a present and future.

If you theorize of a time construct without beginning then that means it regresses indefinitely yielding an infinite past from which nothing can ever emerge and progress forward. This scenario is irrational and the reason why is because it is a fallacy, infinite regression and linear progression are not compatible.

Also given a contemporary cosmology time begins with the beginning of the universe.

Now the reason why I said all that is because of your first sentence where you posit a view that states something that is created as also being eternal and since anything that is created must also have a beginning(its' time of creation) it can never be eternal as it defies one of the definitions(a thing without beginning or end) of eternity as well as my above reply where I attempted to provide some reasoning behind this.

So having said all that it's also true that the Bible and the Christians may define eternity differently than I do(perhaps irrationally), and I would have to disagree with that in this context.

Thanks for the reply. I'm going back to bed now.

:-)

[ChaosTech]

. Sleep well. I guess I just feel life is more then math, 1s and 0s, beginnings and ends. It's actually highly abstract. So given that and a curious logic, what if there is no real end, true zero not being there, I admit the head gets wonky, but children seem to express it well.

[Spida]

ChaosTech, on 07 August 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

. Sleep well. I guess I just feel life is more then math, 1s and 0s, beginnings and ends. It's actually highly abstract. So given that and a curious logic, what if there is no real end, true zero not being there, I admit the head gets wonky, but children seem to express it well.

Thanks. I have really weird hours, but slept like a baby.

So it may appear to some(including myself) that there is a contradiction by me here in this thread so let me explain:

In Post 3: I was talking about eternity as an existence that is periodic, but eternally recurring, i.e. broken but in an abstract sense treated as a singular entity because that's what it is - an eternal existence, but interrupted.

In Post 5: I was talking about eternity in a conventional sense, i.e. infinitely contiguous without beginning or end; never ending, and with respect to time this is a fallacy.

Ergo, the only thing that is truly eternal is an idea, and that idea is of the absolute which consists of both time, and no time as previously stated. After all, this is the Eternal Dance, and everyone knows that it takes two to tango!

I know there is more to be said about this, there always is and quite often lack of elaboration renders a similar feeling as if an error has been made, but I didn't lose any sleep over it.

:-)

[Spida]

Many times when I look at things I write I do realize I could have written them better, aesthetics can be a problem but let us be grateful that we are not chiseling away at color and form like some we know. The gifted ones who formulate glorious works of art, and even have time for shopping, now that is insanity. (I considered the exclamation aesthetically dissonant so chose to omit it)