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Question About Reincarnation


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#1 alexandros8888

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:24 PM

It is known that the last two centuries global population increased from one billion to six billion.my question is where were human souls before this increasion?

#2 alexandros8888

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:30 PM

An other question is if karma entails that we must not do nothing to improve the quality of our life or to solve some social issues?

#3 Spida

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:25 PM

View Postalexandros8888, on 11 June 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

It is known that the last two centuries global population increased from one billion to six billion.my question is where were human souls before this increasion?

Doesn't this sound a lot like the Hydra Analogy in a different post(Spirit Model Thread). Population increasing exponentially via departure and return ? One departs, and two return ?

The source/origin of the Human Souls would be the Primordial Godseed, also known as a Zero Volume Existence. Which aligns with Qabalah, and Cosmology. Spirit does not require four dimensional spacetime for its' Existence, as a matter of fact it creates it via a process known as an Aetherial Expansion, i.e. Creation of Space and Time.

Edit:

I know there could be a bit more depth and elaboration here with this. The Spirit initially starts from within the Primordial Point, and then expands outwards during the creative process, so then where do the Souls come from at this point ? I suppose there is still a connection to the source, and the Spirit that is Within manifests to what is without, and with the emergence of galaxies and star systems, biological systems that are still in some way connected to the source to allow for continued emergence of Spirit via biospheres such as Earth.

The ALL which permeates all space and time can be considered Spirit, with the individual elements(Souls) still manifesting from the Source.

Edited by Spida, 11 June 2018 - 10:01 PM.

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#4 Spida

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 02:38 PM

Although in conformance with a current theme amidst recent threads, and also perhaps a slightly more elegant and less cumbersome analysis would be to just look at the contemporary cosmological view of emergence from 'Nothing', i.e. a Zero Volume Existence, Primordial Point, or Singularity. As an Emergent Transfomation, and not be concerned with the Source as it was, but what it is 'Becoming'.

Of course I would still acknowledge that the 'ALL' that was Within, expanded to become what is Without in effect rendering the Omnipresent Spirit of the Primordial Consciousness.

So then the Emergent Soul would be a Product and Process of the relevant Biosphere alone, and its' characteristics would be defined, and correlate with that of the Emergent Physical Vehicle/Vessel.
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#5 Spida

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:22 AM

See also: http://occultcorpus....-tree-of-souls/
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#6 alexandros8888

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 09:24 PM

Also,the New Age movement supports the purpose of reincarnation is to eliminate weaknesses,to improve their virtues,to an upword course of evolution.But we observe that our world has malignancies,holes,carelessness,absence of compassion and the worst mental degradation so blanket with aftermath for neurologists to conclude that humans appear the first indications of a galloping cerebral degeneration.It is right that normally we should be more spiritually evolved?

#7 Spida

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:05 PM

See, but the thing here Alexander The Great 888 is that we must except the fact that reincarnation is perpetual ! Not everything is about Things that have a beginning and an End !

Once you begin to see through all the smoke and mirrors you realize that what is happening now, has always been happening ! Sure individual facets of Existence such as us Creatures are always coming into and out of Existence ! And this appears finite, because we are finite !

But at the Heart of all of this is a Grand Paradox, a Thing without Beginning or End ! Churning ! This is the Song of the Universe ! It never began, we stumbled upon it Segway, and there is no other way !

It is the opposing ends of the Spiral forever moving inward and outward, the Circle broken to affect Time !

The ineffable recurring Existence Without Beginning or end, by default. The Melody in which you did not hear the beginning, nor will the end, but happened upon right in the middle by chance !
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#8 voidgazing

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:27 PM

Quote

It is known that the last two centuries global population increased from one billion to six billion.my question is where were human souls before this increasion?

Why would they need to be anywhere?

Quote

An other question is if karma entails that we must not do nothing to improve the quality of our life or to solve some social issues?

No. There are different definitions of karma, but in general it means 'cause and effect'. This is sometimes interpreted to mean that if you are a jerk you will be punished, and if a nice person you will be rewarded, but that is also considered a little silly by some. A more in depth version is that it is the direction of the soul- everything we do all day accrues karma, until and unless we free ourselves from all clinging and learn to let go of existence within the universe itself. The idea that suffering was based on your previous life and that you deserve it was popularized by those seeking to exploit the caste system in India as a tool for social control, and it is pure bullshit.

Quote

Also,the New Age movement supports the purpose of reincarnation is to eliminate weaknesses,to improve their virtues,to an upword course of evolution.But we observe that our world has malignancies,holes,carelessness,absence of compassion and the worst mental degradation so blanket with aftermath for neurologists to conclude that humans appear the first indications of a galloping cerebral degeneration.It is right that normally we should be more spiritually evolved?

The New Age movement began with some hilarious misinterpretations of Hindu and Buddhist ideas by Western mystics. The idea of 'progress' from 'less evolved' to 'more evolved' is a Western one that was very popular at the time (mostly the 19th century). The myth of progress was applied to every facet of life, from technology to morality, and still often is today, despite a complete lack of evidence for it. That lead people to assume things about those ideas that were just not true, effectively creating new ideas and obscuring the original ones from the broader public for, oh ::checks the time:: a few hundred years now.

In biological terms, there is no 'more' evolved, that doesn't even begin to make sense to say. There are only greater and lesser degrees of adaptation to conditions. There is no end point, no 'goal' or 'higher state'.

In my own opinion in spiritual terms, this idea of progress is a toxic notion. It requires that we first define- somehow, with our unevolved selves- where we are supposed to go. There are people who claim to know the answer to that, but I have never met one who had achieved and sustained such 'evolution'. The definition they use can lead to some horrific things (purple Kool Aid and black Nike sneakers, the Crusades, the Great Leap Forward, etc etc). It can also slow learning, because of course when someone gets bad results, instead of examining those, they are often encouraged to believe they were just doin it rong, not trying hard enough to be like the book says they should. People ask how they are "supposed to feel" FFS. That ain't how feelings work.
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#9 Spida

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 10:58 AM

View Postalexandros8888, on 21 June 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

It is right that normally we should be more spiritually evolved?

The answer to that question is yes ! In my last reply I was speaking of the Absolute, and not relatively.

These finite linear time sequences(Universes) that are perpetually generated by the Absolute consist of many Eons ! So relatively speaking there is plenty of 'time' for advancement and evolution, and you should most definitely be looking to better yourself within this timeframe, but also keep in mind that better, worse, good, and bad are subjective terms and have different meaning when taken in an Absolute Context as opposed to a relative, evolutionary one ! And of course have variable meaning amidst a range of unique individuals. So it's basically a consensus thing that Society establishes for us, and is useful in creating order as opposed to chaos and anarchy !

But ultimately in the End, and what I was getting at in my prior(poetic) reply is that ALL OF THIS is repeated, ad infinitum ! ALL of your Evolutionary Progress, your status will END when the Universe ends.

This never ending cycle of Universe IS the Absolute, and there is NO Evolution there, but only Eternal Insanity !
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#10 alexandros8888

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 03:36 PM

And tell me spida which are the criteria of personal spiritual evolution?

#11 monsnoleedra

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 04:02 PM

Just me but who says that any "Soul" or "Spirit" stays singular? I have memories of two past lives that I know are brothers who lived at the same time and died in the same world war. One in a B-17 and the other in a submarine. While I haven't been able to identify the specific set of brothers I can tell you the submarine is an early S-boat and the B-17 is also an early model by certain design features. So if I have duel memories from two separate past lives that to me infers that separate souls can merge into one but also that one can separate into two or more in other incarnations.

I personally think we make a mistake in presuming each incarnation is for the purpose of spiritual evolution. I think an incarnation is more for the experience of "Life" more so than any notion of spiritual evolution. It's one of the reasons life is seen as more than just "human" in concept and awareness. Where we fail is in setting limits on what "Life" actually is being defined as.
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#12 alexandros8888

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 03:49 PM

Also.The bacteria and the worms from where they come from?Because it is not possible to say that a worm has a good or bad soul!From where they reincarnated?And based on which good actions will they progress?

#13 alexandros8888

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:46 PM

When a bad person reincarnated to a bad animal,then how he will raise to superior being?The bad animal will not reincarnated with its row to something worse?And lets suppose that all beings are parts of All-knowing God(according to eastern philosophy)If so this God is all-knowing then why He needs to be splited in so many pieces and to return to Him?Provided always He is all-knowing what He needs all these experiences?

#14 alexandros8888

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 05:51 PM

And if the beings don't remain distinct characters but they lose their personalities in what helps this hardship of so many reincarnations with purpose to return to nothing of Nirvana?

#15 alexandros8888

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 08:06 PM

And if the Absolute One from all of which it is supposed that all beings came from,Is the highest degree of evolution from were bad beings come from?Because they should be come from something bad!But something with so high degree of evolution is impossible to abuse!

#16 Spida

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 09:25 PM

View Postalexandros8888, on 24 June 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

And if the Absolute One from all of which it is supposed that all beings came from,Is the highest degree of evolution from were bad beings come from?Because they should be come from something bad!But something with so high degree of evolution is impossible to abuse!

The Absolute is not about evolution. Intrinsically it is about Eternity where there can be no evolution. Because in order for there to be evolution, there must be a beginning, but the Absolute is chaotic and never ending.

With the Universe comes the beginning of Space, Time, Order, and Evolution. The Universe has a beginning and an end. It is God - The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end of everything !

The Absolute is a resetting mechanism that restores the Primordial Point and everything else. There is no memory between Universes, only eternal states.

Every beginning is nothing of the sort, but merely a reset in a never ending causal chain, ad infinitum !

:-)

Edited by Spida, 07 July 2018 - 09:28 PM.

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#17 Spida

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 06:36 PM

View Postalexandros8888, on 24 June 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

Also.The bacteria and the worms from where they come from?Because it is not possible to say that a worm has a good or bad soul!From where they reincarnated?And based on which good actions will they progress?

This is actually a pretty good question, and I'm sure you understand that there is no definitive answer for this.

It can be said that anything that is animated(that moves) contains spirit. Now the vehicle that the spirit is plugged into, seated within, or arranged in accordance with is paramount of course. Some lifeforms have severely diminished sentience while others like us Homo Sapiens have the luxury of five senses. Also consciousness can vary greatly from person to person. Some may have expanded perception while other do not - evolution definitely plays a role here, and with all the tools being accounted for there is absolutely the possibility for advancement.

Now the source of all things, or at least a most viable starting point would be the Primordial Consciousness which is infinite in all aspects, meaning that in some form or another it contains all the facets of existence, even earthworms and bacteria of course.

You can observe various facets of existence that have specialized functions. Even humans that are very similar in appearance have unique DNA which yields a specialized role. Different people have different areas that they excel in. Different DNA different role/function. Apparently even identical twins do not share identical DNA.

But given the cyclical nature of existence though; periods of time and "no time" - eternally recurring. It can be rationalized that whatever is happening now has always been happening since there was never any 'beginning'. Instead there is a dual nature of the Absolute - Yin and Yang, positive and negative, time and "no time", and finally existence and non-existence - an eternal rhythm if you will. So any individual with whatever type of DNA, it doesn't matter. Will always exist periodically throughout existence, forever - with the same exact genetic code.

And as far as the earthworm. I would say that some organisms serve a supportive role for creation, that is their purpose, and there may not be any evolution for them. It is true that some organisms also are destructive, for their own sake. So this is not good but yields dynamics for creation - the Yin and Yang, and polarity again - a Hermetic principle.
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#18 Spida

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 07:55 PM

I really don't want to say this but my paradigm begs the notion that we are all becoming gods, i.e...

It begins with a linear time segment initiated by the Absolute - the creation of a new universe. The initiator is a primordial point, singularity, or simply a seed - a Godseed. This undergoes a process of cosmic anabolism that we know as the "tree of life". Earth being the result, so it's(we) are obviously very important.

This initiator is a seed of primordial consciousness that is also a microcosm because it has not yet 'expanded' to create space, and time only exists within it and not macrocosmically(our 4d spacetime).

So in our present state, i.e. the microcosm. We are also analogous to 'seeds' of consciousness within the spacetime that the 'tree' has created for us - which is synonymous with the tree itself seeding, or going to seed.

This is a representation of fractal infinity, and although it's a mouthful the pattern appears to be that our seed of consciousness is evolving, becoming, or expanding. Perhaps in a similar fashion as the primordial. So it would indeed appear that we are, perhaps ourselves becoming 'gods'.

Of course the 'absolute' is the only thing that is truly eternal in a fundamental sense, but since everything is an aspect of it then that means indirectly that those things are eternal, i.e. eternally recurring as well.

You can form a maxim here : Since the 'cause' never ceases to exist, than neither do its' 'effects'.

So it can be observed that the general mechanics of this model is : wheels within wheels, with the outer most wheel being the absolute that is the most fundamental - eternal polarity, i.e. exist; not exist, among other possible terminology. Reincarnation being a smaller wheel/cycle existing further within the model.

Basically consciousness would be a most fundamental root here aside from the absolute.

Edited by Spida, 01 October 2018 - 08:35 AM.

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#19 Orlando

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 09:15 PM

View PostSpida, on 30 September 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

I really don't want to say this but my paradigm begs the notion that we are all becoming gods, .....

Would these new gods remain independent from the source and go their own way, as a grownup person does from his or her parents, and possibly to go on to produce more ofspring, more potential gods?
_

#20 Spida

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 11:56 PM

View PostOrlando, on 30 September 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

Would these new gods remain independent from the source and go their own way, as a grownup person does from his or her parents, and possibly to go on to produce more ofspring, more potential gods?
_

Well yeah I suppose that's the general idea given the theory. It conforms with the formula of tetragrammaton, basically a fractal geometry approaching infinity with regard to the seed to tree metaphors.

It always begins with consciousness as a seed; the seed becomes a tree(of life). It matures and goes to seed - producing new souls that serve as the precursor to primordial origins of other universes, ad infinitum.

So it is thought that the 'absolute', and it's concept of 'seeding' has gone on forever without beginning or end. This results in a paradox, but I don't believe there is any other way in which to resolve the absolute, rationally.
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