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Chaos


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#1 Mskied

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 09:05 PM

What are your definitions of Chaos Magick? What are its aims, and what is it good for? Personally I believe that it is the awareness of the potential of all things- all things in their perfect form. It is also confusion, and destruction. Add these up and I think that Chaos Magick is about recognizing ones confused state and destroying it so that one can perceive the perfect forms of ideas and create a better, more useful and true perspective on doing.

#2 Mskied

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 02:04 PM

Here me when I speak of the Abyss. For there is Chaos, and there is Order, and the Abyss holds them all! Enter not sheepishly, for there is War, and Death, and Loss.

For they that conquer this rite there is Love, and Light, and Strength. For them that cannot emerge; there is nothing.

Enter with a just cause, and you shall not perish!

Edited by Mskied, 24 March 2018 - 02:04 PM.


#3 Mskied

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 07:55 PM

Hail once again from the Serpent Masters of Venus!

Do What Thou Wilt

When you travel within the Word of Thoth and the Son of God, the Logos- you will know the value of the letter, and the meaning of Truth. Begin with the Oath, and examine Qaballah (I recommend the Hermetic)

A strong survey of religion is necessary for this age, and within those halls lies great treasure, unless yours is the call of the Left, in which case, you can deny all wisdom (at quite a cost).

All Mythology possess the keys, and all religion carry Truth, but the most complete is the Indian, and the most commonly recognized on this side of the planet is the Jew. Still, carry on, for they all intertwine.

Philosophy holds keys that cannot be ignored, and though they are of little comfort in the trial (for really, there is no comfort in the Abyss), one must carry the lesson of the great Greek thinkers in order to find a House in which to dwell. The Great Beast is the current Hierophant, and it is recommended that you examine the ceremonies and ideas presented by the Master Therion.

Tarot is a great source for learning how to read your story, and until you have written one, the gods may not beckon or answer. Take the path of the Neophyte seriously and find your Word. When it is time, it will be revealed to you.

Remember that there are a small selection of disciplines, and decide which is best, but know this: only one crosses all paths.

As you meditate learn to contemplate, and when you eat of your plate, do not hesitate, unless you think it akin to the act of masturbate, which is a sterile lesson, though necessary.

Love is the Law, Love under Will!

#4 Imperial Arts

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 07:43 PM

WTF?

Chaos Magic never fails to disappoint.

The initial packaging looked great: a system of magic that used REALITY as the only symbol set. Not gods, not guardian angels, not demons, not anything remotely connected to astrology or occultism. That was never achieved, and there is almost no interest in such a thing among any of the main promoters of Chaos Magic.

The first failure arose from the public being unable to understand reality as symbolic, and all of the main writers on Chaos Magic have completely dropped the ball in that regard. Instead of "pure" magic, we have hundreds of pages of mixed deity names, and bits and pieces of occult systems from around the world. In former times, they would simply mix together whatever deities seemed appropriate, and now they just invent the deities. That isn't chaos magic, it's just eclecticism.

The current manifestations are far worse. I've been over at Arcanorium for a few years, and finally cancelled the subscription because it produces nearly nothing in terms of content. The classes are a joke, and it's really very little more than a Peter Carroll & Friends book club attached to a jargon infested circle jerk.

Most hardcore chaos magic practices are a thinly veiled excuse to get high and LARP, which s about as far as they have gotten in the real world as a loose group of sects. They're supposed to be developing FTL transport but would rather make Baphomet plushies and pat each other on the back for writing worthless new age books. Every single flaw enumerated in "Dropping the Wand" is a standard practice.

Edited by Imperial Arts, 29 May 2018 - 07:46 PM.

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#5 violetstar

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 08:29 PM

View PostMskied, on 28 May 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

Hail once again from the Serpent Masters of Venus!

Do What Thou Wilt

When you travel within the Word of Thoth and the Son of God, the Logos- you will know the value of the letter, and the meaning of Truth. Begin with the Oath, and examine Qaballah (I recommend the Hermetic)

A strong survey of religion is necessary for this age, and within those halls lies great treasure, unless yours is the call of the Left, in which case, you can deny all wisdom (at quite a cost).

All Mythology possess the keys, and all religion carry Truth, but the most complete is the Indian, and the most commonly recognized on this side of the planet is the Jew. Still, carry on, for they all intertwine.

Philosophy holds keys that cannot be ignored, and though they are of little comfort in the trial (for really, there is no comfort in the Abyss), one must carry the lesson of the great Greek thinkers in order to find a House in which to dwell. The Great Beast is the current Hierophant, and it is recommended that you examine the ceremonies and ideas presented by the Master Therion.

Tarot is a great source for learning how to read your story, and until you have written one, the gods may not beckon or answer. Take the path of the Neophyte seriously and find your Word. When it is time, it will be revealed to you.

Remember that there are a small selection of disciplines, and decide which is best, but know this: only one crosses all paths.

As you meditate learn to contemplate, and when you eat of your plate, do not hesitate, unless you think it akin to the act of masturbate, which is a sterile lesson, though necessary.

Love is the Law, Love under Will!
What exactly are you attempting to portray here? As it stands,your post is an incoherent,dis-jointed mish mash of ideologies presented as some form of enlightenment driven by dogmatic instruction and is rather condescendent in its overall tone.Please be more specific so we can discuss the individual concepts you shroud in obscure phraseologies.

#6 Mskied

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 11:37 PM

To the one that first replied. You are correct! There need be no symbol but reality, and that is why I recommend the Greek thinkers.

To the second; but that is what Chaos Magick is all about! For once you cross, you see that the cross is the bridge, and yet- it is across from the magick that you intend, which is CHAOS!!! For as you dwell in the indwelling, you come to see that as we dance with the snake, it devours us, and leads us to death! But oh! I see light! It is hidden within the light! The light is the Word, and the Word is GODDDDDDDDDDDDZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Worship therefore the WORD and listen to THOTH! For He can tell you who He is, if only you look him up on your speed dial!

The Master Therion starts the ball a rolling... DO WHAT THOU WILT until you find that you can do nothing else! It is CHAOS my friends! Laugh and leap and love in languor and ecstasy as you jerk yourself around in a circle, until you ride that babe of Babylon with her SnM implements, praising your vigor and want for chastity!

The Queen of destruction will find your seat, and on your soul She will eat, as you travel the world eating nothing but meat, when will you admit defeat? NOT UNTIL YOU SAY: "Love is the Law!"

NOW GO!!!!!!!

#7 Imperial Arts

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 01:23 AM

I must have missed the recommendation toward Greek philosophy somewhere in all that word salad.

The kind of raving I see in this thread passes for a fair example of what's coming out of Chaos Magic these days. Whatever you want to think must be right, anyone who disagrees is too boring and unenlightened.

In your post, I see Crowley, more Crowley, Crowley's girlfriend, and Crowley's Thoth. It's more like offbeat Thelema than Chaos Magic. And its still just a mess of gods and myths and other novelties.

You willingly embrace the idea of a symbolic reality, but have you given that any serious contemplation? Hopefully more than what you gave dear Alice.

If we step aside from philosophy, a defining feature of Chaos Magic vs. Hermetics is that Chaos magic attempts to understand magic as a technical process rather than an appeal to deities. There's more to it than Epicureanism and graffiti.

Take off the sandwich board, put down the pamphlets, and have a talk.
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#8 Mskied

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 01:45 AM

What you arent noticing is that the Gods arent just personalities: they are ideas, and yes... they form a technical process.

#9 Topper

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 03:14 PM

View PostMskied, on 30 May 2018 - 01:45 AM, said:

What you arent noticing is that the Gods arent just personalities: they are ideas, and yes... they form a technical process.
If Gods are processes.who originated them? Personality is defined as the set of habitual behaviors, cognitions and emotional patterns that evolve from biological and environmental factors.How does this fit in to your statement?If they are idealistic,how will they conform to individual interpretation?

#10 Mskied

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 04:55 PM

The basis for the existence of Man is the same as it has always been. Very little has changed except for the technology that we employ, which is really very little, unless you are involved in the science of something- if you are involved in the science of something then you might be convoluted by the deeper analysis of Nature that came from the original question of "What is Mans place in Nature". In order to obtain enlightenment one needs to strip away all civilized process and return to the way of the original Shamans before we invented the personality. When you come to the understanding of the development of personality you become aware that these Gods are simply Universal problems that Man had to ask themselves as they progressed to our current condition. This is easily done if you study Wynn Westcotts book on Hermeticsm. In it he gives keys to the original idea. The original idea also is found in all myth. Simply imagine yourself as an ancient Man that begins to contemplate the meaning of the Universe. Look at Nature and see how they named the spirits. Realize that Man started with something as simple as plant life and moved into animal worship and elemental worship and planetary awareness. This was the start of chemistry and physics and all inner examination of the outer natural world. Think too, that with the only tools to examine life are found on your body, then decide and name all the things you can see with this one tool. Eventually you will contemplate a scheme, and that is where you will find the gate to initiation. From there, you will begin to examine the particulars of your life, and come to know the reason for who you now are. In this fashion you free yourself from your karma, because you prove each point and the result of each choice. There are a number of systems that begin with a point, and they all work so long as you keep moving from point to point. I recommend Bill Whitcombs book The Magicians Companion. I recommend Hermetic Qabalah. I recommend Greek mythology. I recommend a simple book on Hinduism. I recommend the Greek metaphysics. I recommend whatever religion you were raised in. I recommend examining the Book of the Law by the current Heirophant the Master Therion. I cannot recommend some of his suggestions because I did not take his path of devotion, I took my own path, and so I would recommend the book Tantra the way of Action by Francis King.

Really, there is no use to studying too much, because knowing too much makes the process of enlightenment that much harder. Its easy enough to simply ask yourself "What is Good?" and "Why are things how they are?" and "What is the Order of the Universe?" If you study Qabalah or Magick, the goal of these things is to name what you appreciate in the world. When you name it, define that word, and define how all things connect to it. This will illuminate you on your world view, and it will enlighten you on the life around you, as well as the cause of your actions. When you name your motive, you find your HGA.

I could lead you through this process in person, but I am on the fence about whether I ought to bring people to enlightenment or if they need to do the work themselves. I feel it is unjust of me to bring them too it because that robs you of finding your spiritual purpose, which is to contribute to the evolution of Man. If you want the simple answer I can easily say "Obey Law"

#11 Imperial Arts

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 05:12 PM

Since when did chaos magicians care about enlightenment?
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#12 Mskied

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 06:23 PM

Why do you think Crowley became a Buddhist?

#13 Imperial Arts

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 06:58 PM

Crowley considered himself a Buddha, not a Buddhist. Unless there's some exciting reason to return, I'm going to let this thread go.

I still hold out hope for a revival of "chaos magic" in the original sense, something that an outsider would not even recognize as rooted in religion or the occult. You aren't about to accomplish that, or anything remotely related to that, but don't fret, neither are Snell, Epperson, or any of the other people in that domain.

Maybe it is a foolish hope, like looking for pure music without influences.


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#14 Mskied

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 07:21 PM

I can only advise you to do a few things if you are actually interested in understanding.

Learn what Magick really is.
Learn what it means to be a Buddha
Learn what Chaos represents
Learn what all spirituality is meant to do


Heres hope that you find what you need

#15 Mskied

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 07:23 PM

Oh and one last thing. It sounds like you are looking for something that doesnt exist. In that case, why dont you create it?

#16 Mskied

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 07:33 PM

Sorry for posting again but it occurred to me what you are looking for. Its pretty easy actually, far easier than what I was suggesting.

You want to do what Crowley suggest when he says "There is no guilt, do what thou wilt!" he also says in one of his ceremonies "Free us from the Evil and the Good". If you want to embrace Chaos Magick, then start there. Its not hard. Just remember that absolute Chaos Magick is nothing organized, and that is why its a waste of effort to even talk about it. Just imagine that you are destroying every sacred or valuable thing, and do everything at random: CHAOS. Hard? Not really... unless you have a soul or something...

Good luck meeting your demon :)

#17 Mskied

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 11:57 AM

Let me explain a bit.

There is knowledge and there is understanding and there is wisdom.

Knowledge is wisdom that was earned by someone else, and one can take the honorable path of learning which provides understanding, but it is not the key to your own wisdom. There is the noble path, which is to set out like a fool, taking the spirit that was formed by the wisdom of the other noble fools. At any time you can become a fool.

When the fool has come to an understanding, they are ready to be given a privilege that transcends the role of actor. You may think that your magick grants you power, and it does; but without a lesson it is just an exercise in wanting, and this life is nothing if not a moral tale. This is just one leg of understanding, for beyond this is more truth, a truth that is not meant for the weary for it requires a great tragedy, and it requires great insight, and it holds a greater truth that few can bear. Still, for safety sake and for sake of being granted great power, know that it is a moral tale, and that the only real power is the words we use, and not the rituals we perform.

You can take the honorable path and do little but imagine much, but without the experience of knowledge, these are just ideas, and the Gods will not take much notice- for the Gods love the ones with intention AND action. As it is a moral tale, the Gods love those that pursue virtue- and there will be no aid from them should you live a mild life- but a mild life is the promise of the prophets that want you to live in peace.

Magick is not for the feeble or the timid, and the Abyss with its silent watchers and their demons is no poetic phrasing; think well about what a demon is able of before you pursue Magick and power.

In all of reality there is what is real, and there is what is not real. There is Order, and there is Truth- but none of this is obvious, except that it is all true. What is power without freedom? And what is freedom if not the Will to do? And what is doing without outcome? The occult is just the pieces, and Magick holds the theme. The story is what is written, and you are just a character. Expand upon this and live. Learn from life, and learn from words- and one day you will find a need to know more because you will see a great need. The more virtuous your cause the more likely the God will come. If you have no need of God then this is fine as well; for the prophets of old want nothing but peace for you, and for you to live a healthy and good life.

Pursuit of Magick is pursuit of power, make no mistake. Dabbling with the Gods and the power of demons or the aid of angels is nothing to take lightly. The more power you possess the more responsibility you will have to answer for, and so use caution- for as I said; this is a moral tale, and the moral begins with the Law of Thelema.

One last piece of advice: what is reality to you? Find this, and declare the greatest role and aim for that! This is when you will have a use for the power you seek.

#18 Mskied

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:01 PM

Crowleys advice is about as inadequate as Christs advice. Christ says to change the world by being agreeable and submissive, but that is no answer to Hinduism because in the end, we admit we have no control. Crowley is better, and it is the obvious place to wander after you denounce passivity, except that his answer is convoluted because he never really answered the measure of what is Good. He said to deny it, and he suggests to allow men to do their will as you do yours, but the truth is that we cannot do this, because as a society, we have to interact. The Book of the Law says this will happen and it says to fight like brothers, and that is a good spirit in which to face the truth that we will have contest, but this still gives no measure of what we fight over; it simply says that we will fight over our Will. The truth is found in between the two: there are things to fight for, and it involves the fact that we all coexist. I cannot say that you fighting for your Will for your own intentions is bad, because I do not know what it will provide for me, but on the outset, if it doesnt directly benefit me and if it seems to do the opposite, I will fight. The truth is that you can fight but it needs to work for all of us, not just yourself. Crowley doesnt go that far.

As there is a Grand overseer God among the Gods, we have to imagine that this God sees that there is no absolute predicting an outcome, and that most causes are justified in some degree, but if you recognize anything, you see that we all must coinhabit, and God will must see this as well, since God is beyond and above. It is not enough to just do your will, it must be met with some Good. Otherwise, there should be some assessment of what you have done. The best way to employ power is to do it with the intention of helping all of us.

#19 Mskied

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:03 PM

The only God that would back anything less than this is Chaos, and God is not Chaos, though it would be easy to imagine Him to be- but look around; this is no Chaos.

#20 Mskied

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:23 PM

In my opinion the greatest argument facing Man is how to dispute Hinduism. It is the established powers that we fight against for our free will. We want control of our destiny, a destiny that might have been set in motion by those of well meaning peace and knowledge, but has been overthrown by warfaring. I want a good life, I want freedom, I want wealth and I don't want to kill for it. Isn't that the ideal? And so we fight for our freedom and that makes us the aggresors. In the end, what was changed? The ones in power bent to our want to love and live as we will, while they still have the power. I will not submit to an unjust leader, and in light of the hope that we are both free, for those that employ force, I will oppose.





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