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Intentional Out Of Body Projection: A Mechanical Method


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#81 coralhatch

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:57 AM

That seems strange to me. If you're concerned with self delusion, but you're also dismissing the value in supposing a causal relationship between your practices and your results, how do you evaluate your work? You say you don't like linear judgments, but a diagnosis of self delusion also requires a clear linear judgment - so why avoid it?

The occult refers to the hidden, not the unknown, and the Mystery traditions refer to what is ineffable, not what is ephemeral. The idiopathic still has a cause.

I feel like this is a parry to what is a fairly straightforward question: what do you do during an OBE?

#82 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:16 AM

View Postcoralhatch, on 15 February 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

That seems strange to me. If you're concerned with self delusion, but you're also dismissing the value in supposing a causal relationship between your practices and your results, how do you evaluate your work? You say you don't like linear judgments, but a diagnosis of self delusion also requires a clear linear judgment - so why avoid it?

You misunderstand.

View Postcoralhatch, on 15 February 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

The occult refers to the hidden, not the unknown, and the Mystery traditions refer to what is ineffable, not what is ephemeral. The idiopathic still has a cause.

You're mistaken.

View Postcoralhatch, on 15 February 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

I feel like this is a parry to what is a fairly straightforward question: what do you do during an OBE?

My body stands or sits in a chair because if it's laying down I'm more likely to fall asleep.
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#83 violetstar

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:33 AM

View PostR. Eugene Laughlin, on 15 February 2018 - 01:16 AM, said:

You're mistaken.


They certainly are."The occult refers to the hidden, not the unknown, and the Mystery traditions refer to what is ineffable, not what is ephemeral." is flawed both in its etymology and its conspectus.

Edited by violetstar, 15 February 2018 - 10:50 AM.


#84 coralhatch

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:51 AM

This is a stupid digression, but no, I'm not mistaken.

Occult - late 15th century (as a verb): from Latin occultare ‘secrete’, frequentative of occulere ‘conceal’, based on celare ‘to hide’

Edited by coralhatch, 15 February 2018 - 11:51 AM.


#85 violetstar

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:00 PM

View Postcoralhatch, on 15 February 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

This is a stupid digression, but no, I'm not mistaken.

Occult - late 15th century (as a verb): from Latin occultare ‘secrete’, frequentative of occulere ‘conceal’, based on celare ‘to hide’
Sorry I thought you were speaking of its usage today not in the 15hC.I love to digress its what makes things more exciting. :)

The occult (from the Latin word occultus "clandestine, hidden, secret") is "knowledge of the hidden".In common English usage, occult refers to "knowledge of the paranormal", as opposed to "knowledge of the measurable", usually referred to as science. The term is sometimes taken to mean knowledge that "is meant only for certain people" or that "must be kept hidden", but for most practicing occultists it is simply the study of a deeper spiritual reality that extends beyond pure reason and the physical sciences.The terms esoteric and arcane can also be used to describe the occult,in addition to their meanings unrelated to the supernatural.
It also describes a number of magical organizations or orders, the teachings and practices taught by them, and to a large body of current and historical literature and spiritual philosophy related to this subject.
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#86 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:06 PM

View Postcoralhatch, on 15 February 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

This is a stupid digression, but no, I'm not mistaken.

Occult - late 15th century (as a verb): from Latin occultare ‘secrete’, frequentative of occulere ‘conceal’, based on celare ‘to hide’

It is a stupid digression. I wasn't talking about the etymology, but making a practical point about magic and how it works from my point of view, and about the drive to know what caused what. The meaning of occult that applies to the magician is hidden by the nature of things. A rough analogy is occult blood in a stool sample. You know it might be there but can't be sure by looking at it. That's what occult means in that context. The difference is that there's a reliable method for detecting hidden blood in fecal matter.

In the domain of magic effects, all you can do is look, and it's no more effective than eyeballing a pile shit to find blood. There's no [reliable] technology to show the links between magic acts and life events. Looking and imagining you see something... especially with a strong drive to find something? That's a fantastic recipe for self-deception, a trap that leads to superstition rather than progress. So I advise to all sincere seekers, let it go or risk the consequences. Foster comfort in not knowing. That's the real path forward.

Edited by R. Eugene Laughlin, 15 February 2018 - 05:01 PM.

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#87 violetstar

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:21 PM

View PostR. Eugene Laughlin, on 15 February 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

It is a stupid digression. I wasn't talking about the etymology, but making a practical point about magic and how it works from my point of view, and about the drive to know what caused what. The meaning of occult that applies to the magician is hidden by the nature of things. A rough analogy is occult blood in a stool sample. You know it might be there but can't be sure by looking at it. That's what occult means in that context. The difference is that there's a reliable method for detecting hidden blood in fecal matter.

In the domain of magic effects, all you can do is look, and it's no more effective than eyeballing a pile shit to find blood. There's no technology to show the links between magic acts and life events. Looking and imaging you see something... especially with a strong drive to find something? That's a fantastic recipe for self-deception, a trap that leads to superstition rather than progress. So I advise to all sincere seekers, let it go or risk the consequences. Foster comfort in not knowing. That's the real path forward.
When someone makes a statement that is flawed or misleading any resulting attempt to rectify that statement in the context it was made can hardly be termed a stupid digression especially when argued against with a personal definition of the terms in hand gained by rewording the base definitions already shown.

But as always rather than become embroiled in a digression I did not actually initiate I will move on.

#88 coralhatch

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:18 PM

Last night I couldn't sleep, as I had been stewing in some emotional pain over an event that happened last year that I had been unable to let go of. The issue had caused me some turmoil, and did not seem to be letting up. Frustrated, I decided upon trying an incantation for Tzadkiel from the Shorshei ha-Shemot, and requested relief from the constant mental and emotional rut of the issue. Upon reciting the incantation, I received a mental image of a hand being placed upon my forehead, as a benediction. Immediately, I experienced relief, in a way that has been previously elusive and lasting since, that I have not managed by other methods for months now.

What caused the effect I experienced? Was it a form of organised autosuggestion? A preferential psychic medium for placebo? Did the great angel Tzadkiel in fact descend from the heavens, whip out his angel cock and jizz in my face for a laugh?

The mechanism is occult. The effect was subjective but observable. There has been an experiment.

Had I tried it and found no effect, I would alter my expectations, dismiss the use of the operation entirely, or consider why it hadn't worked at all.

If I were to tell you that it was the most powerful and effective and foolproof technique ever discovered, you would be forgiven for thinking I was delusional. If I was to suggest with absolute certainty that the observable effects had a 1:1 causal relationship to my actions, then it'd also be fair to suggest I was lacking the appropriate epistemological humility.

But what would you make of me if I said that I was trying the actions, but refused to speculate as to whether they would have any observable effect whatsoever, and refused to suggest which effects I might hope those actions would correspond to?

When people throw shit at the wall to see what sticks - at least they check to see what does stick!

But whatever - we clearly have different views on how we think about magic, that's fine. Again, I'm not asking you to prove anything to me, I'm just interested in what you actually do when you have an OBE. Given your obtuse responses, I'm going to assume it's nothing interesting.

#89 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 07:34 PM

View Postcoralhatch, on 15 February 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

I'm just interested in what you actually do when you have an OBE. Given your obtuse responses, I'm going to assume it's nothing interesting.

I appreciate that.
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#90 Imperial Arts

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:25 PM

If you tell me that you've read a book that changed your life, and I ask what's in the book and how it changed your life, I expect that you could probably tell me about some of the events or characters in the book and how it helped to change your life.

My father is one of those people who, throughout his life, held a rigid belief system so thoroughly Atheist that Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking might have been dismissed at some point as peddlers of superstition. When my mother died, 13 years ago, he had what he refers to as a "paranormal experience" and what I refer to as a moment of stress relief. To him, it was some kind of proof of life after death. His details remains mostly under abstraction, as his personal experience, and I haven't got the heart to suggest that they are perfectly normal physiological reactions to the event, but it was definitely a life-changing event. How did it change his life? I couldn't make an exact statement of it, but it did, and he is definitely more open to far out topics after years of mulling it over in his mind.

Is this the kind of thing you mean, about being unable to define precisely what changes were brought about as a result of the experience? While there is no one-to-one correlation of the paranormal experience and the general weakening of the Atheist Elite Guard within the frontal cortex of my father, it is something I have noticed and could be articulated as above.
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#91 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 07:47 PM

The training takes about year of daily effort for most people, at 10-20 minutes per day. There are four developmental phases.
Phase 1: Peripersonal space perception
Phase 2: Sequenced attentional control; expanding the triggers and range of peripersonal space perception
Phase 3: Adding a sequenced physical (include controlled breathing) routine to peripersonal space perception work
Phase 4. Projection exercises

Phase 3: Adding a sequenced physical (include controlled breathing) routine to peripersonal space perception work

Most of the Phase 3 work is added to the front end of the routine established during Phase 2, and the duration of daily Phase 2-like work is accordingly shortened to keep the work to about 20 minutes/day. The exercise follows familiar patterns in ritual magic. There is some resemblance to Tai Chi routines as well, but there are notable differences on both counts.

A new attentional skill is added during this phase that represents one of those most challenging aspects of the technique: both focused and diffused attention in multiple places at once. Unless directed otherwise, there should be no extra breaths between steps. Sequencing the actions with your breathing is a vital part of the technique. Don't indulge in extra breath cycles except where explicitly directed.

1. Start the session as usual, with a basic relaxation and focused breathing.

2. With arms at your sides, feet comfortably a few inches apart, concentrate your attention on the area below your feet. Feel the sensations there.

3. Take in a slow, steady inhalation while steadily raising your arms out to your sides and up to a position over your head, palms facing one another about 6 inches apart just as your lungs are filled to capacity. Simultaneously draw your attention up, around, and through your body, coming to rest between your hands just as they've come to their final position above your head. Hold your breath in for a few moments while holding this position and attentional focus.

4. On your next exhalation, reverse the previous procedure. Face your palms outward and lower your arms to their original position at your sides, but this time maintain the focal point above your head while simultaneously drawing your attention down, around, and through your body to a position below your feet. Hold the dual focus above and below with your lungs empty a few moments.

Notes on the steps through step 4. The dual focus demand of step 4 is quite challenging for most people. It's a good idea to spend the majority of your sessions working on just the steps up to step 4 for the first couple of weeks of Phase 3 training. For this initial period, after completing the 4th step as described above. Maintain the dual focus above and below and allow yourself to fade into a relaxed, steady breathing rhythm that you won't need to think about. If you lose the dual focus, reset and repeat steps 2 to 4, again lingering on the dual focus while breathing steadily. During these early weeks, spend the last 5-10 minutes of your session doing some Phase 2-like exercises (choose one per session, or mix it up). Always have a little bite to eat after your sessions, something healthy and not too much, especially if close to your regular bed time. When you feel comfortable with the dual focus, add the next steps to the routine, starting on the next inhalation after step 4.

5. Keep the dual focus above and below while taking in a slow, steady breath. Simultaneously, bend your elbows and raise your hands up to your chest, palms facing outward, just as your lungs are filled to capacity. Hold your breath in for a few moments with your attention focused in three places at once: above and below, and about your chest. Then as you exhale, lunge forward with one foot while pushing your hands forward and extend all of your attention forward (including the attention focused above and below) into the space in front of you as far as it will go till your lungs are emptied. Hold that position and attentional focus for a few moments.

Notes on step 5. When your attention extends out in front of you, let it go out to about 6 feet away from your body, then let it expand to include all of the space in your visual field in front of you at about that distance. A descriptive idea for the step 5 actions is that your attention drains from above and below to a powerful single focus about your chest area, and then out into the space in front of you like a beam, where it then diffuses into a broad field cover all of the space before you.

You can expect to develop the ability to recognize qualitative differences in how you feel when focusing attention in one place or two places at once, and the difference between focusing on a limited area and a broader region. Make recognizing those distinctions a goal of the work at this stage.

6. Keep the diffused attention in the space where it was established while taking in a slow, steady breath and recentering your stance, returning arms to your sides. Allow a normal breathing rhythm for two-three breath cycles, and rotate your body 90 degrees to the right without losing the diffused attantional focus on area just established. Repeat steps 3 to 5 while facing the new direction. Then repeat this step, rotating your body another 90 degrees to the right, repeating steps 3 to 6 until you have returned to your original direction. When facing the original direction, repeat step 3 and 4 only. Keep the diffused attentional focus in each direction as you go, so that by the end of the process at the end of step 4 back at origin your attention is focused above and below you, as well as being diffused into the space all around you. Maintain this state as long as you can, or as long as you wish.

7. Finish the session with a Phase 2-like exercises while keeping attentional awareness on the diffused space around you. Finish the session as usual, and have a little something to eat, something healthy and not too much if near bedtime.

General notes on Phase 3. The the sequence from steps 3 to 5 are easy to memorize and take but two complete breath cycles to accomplish (despite the length of the description). These are action-packed breath cycles to be sure, but once learned, performance time is minimal. Extra time can and should be spent appreciating the sensations associated with the expanding mutli-focal attention at step 6, when a normal breathing rhythm is allowed and the specified attentional foci are the only requirements. While learning the steps and getting ideas of how multi-focused attention feels, you should stop and start over as needed. Always stop and start over if your concentration is broken, even for if but for a split second. The key to making this work successful is to occupy your attention completely, as described, and without straying to random thoughts. If random thoughts do intrude, don't beat yourself up about it. Stop, reset, and go again from the beginning. Work daily for flawless performance.

The brief pauses when a normal breathing rhythm is adopted are the most likely times that random thoughts might occur. The trick to preventing intruding thoughts is to intently maintain the specified multi-attentional focus. That is, random thoughts tend to come when the mind is doing nothing in particular, so do something in particular: keep your mind occupied with the directed multi-focused attention, and when that has become second nature, keep your mind occupied by the sensations that come with that attentional focus.

Once the sequence is well-learned, rehearse it from start to finish 2-3 times (or more) at each session, and always finishing with some Phase 2-like work, for a total of about 20 minutes per session. Continue daily in this manner until the simultaneous breathing, motions, and multi-attentional foci become second nature and can be performed without intruding thoughts. When the actions and focus become automatic and free of distraction, you’ll naturally become increasingly aware of your perceptual experience as the sequence of actions unfold. What becomes ever-clearer as your performance improves is that there's no meaningful difference between focusing attention on the space around you and occupying the space around you.

Spend at least 4-5 months working on Phase 3.
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