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Spirits Have They A Religion?


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#1 Sheperdess

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 04:18 PM

Do spirits have religious belief?

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#2 monsnoleedra

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 04:58 PM

To answer that one must define Spirits first I think.

If one is considering the spirits of ancestors and restless dead in general then yes many do retain their religious beliefs or some aspect of them that they held in life.
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#3 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:48 PM

A few times I've had angels try to convert me to Christianity. So I think of those as Christian angels, but it is very likely not the same as a human being who belongs to a religion. It's more that they work with that religion and its institutions; they officiate in churches at the services and give spiritual help to Christian charities. I remember thinking their arguments were very clever- it's no use trying to win an argument with an angel!
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#4 Imperial Arts

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 10:14 PM

What kind of an intelligent being recognizes no power greater than itself?

If anything, spirits probably have a better concept of what is not worthy of reverence. Both Moses and Mohammed had to spend a pretty fair percentage of their sermon time convincing people not to think of God as adequately represented by animals and natural phenomena, as people were prone to think of those things as divine.

Here is a bit of Milton that sits well enough with most monotheistic models about spirits and the diversities of faith:

"Though of thir Names in heav'nly Records now
Be no memorial blotted out and ras'd
By thir Rebellion, from the Books of Life.
Nor had they yet among the Sons of Eve
Got them new Names, till wandring ore the Earth,
Through Gods high sufferance for the tryal of man,
By falsities and lyes the greatest part
Of Mankind they corrupted to forsake
God thir Creator, and th' invisible
Glory of him that made them, to transform
Oft to the Image of a Brute, adorn'd
With gay Religions full of Pomp and Gold,
And Devils to adore for Deities:
Then were they known to men by various Names,
And various Idols through the Heathen World."

And you might just as well read Sura 72 of the Koran, which talks about how the Djinn are no more privy to divine counsel than men, and of how all created brings will be judged by their morals so there are noble and also evil spirits each following their own faith or path just as we do.

Edited by Imperial Arts, 04 November 2017 - 04:31 AM.

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#5 violetstar

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:31 PM

In a work on Necromancy Martin Coleman remarked how the religion you believed in when you were alive will be of little use when you are dead.

Given that,why should spirits be different other than those created within the confines of man made religious structures?

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#6 monsnoleedra

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 05:07 PM

View Postvioletstar, on 08 November 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

In a work on Necromancy Martin Coleman remarked how the religion you believed in when you were alive will be of little use when you are dead.

Given that,why should spirits be different other than those created within the confines of man made religious structures?

I can only go by my individual experience's but the spirits of the deceased I've dealt with have very much clung to the belief's the held when alive. So much so that some have remained earth bound due to those beliefs. Lack of proper religious burial practices, etc or such keeping their spirits trapped upon the earthly plane in more than a few instances.

Now once they have crossed over the veil and completely dropped their earthly garb, perhaps then it may be of no concern. But from personal experience again even that may take a few generations removal before they have completely dropped all vestiges of "life" and it's influences upon them. But then that is one of those things that can not be scientifically proven.

But then again I once had one ask me how long did I think any heaven really lasted before we out grew it? Sort of makes you wonder if you grow out of the system into another model?
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#7 violetstar

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 03:32 PM

View Postmonsnoleedra, on 09 November 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

I can only go by my individual experience's but the spirits of the deceased I've dealt with have very much clung to the belief's the held when alive. So much so that some have remained earth bound due to those beliefs. Lack of proper religious burial practices, etc or such keeping their spirits trapped upon the earthly plane in more than a few instances.

Now once they have crossed over the veil and completely dropped their earthly garb, perhaps then it may be of no concern. But from personal experience again even that may take a few generations removal before they have completely dropped all vestiges of "life" and it's influences upon them. But then that is one of those things that can not be scientifically proven.

But then again I once had one ask me how long did I think any heaven really lasted before we out grew it? Sort of makes you wonder if you grow out of the system into another model?
I am drawn back on this to our old discussion on graveyards.In the folklore of the graveyard guardian we find no religious connection to this entity who simply protects hose interred there irrespective of their belief when alive.
We see the same lore attached to megalithic burial cultures though the idea there may vary from tribal tutelary to ancestral guardianship.What is critical here is that any burial rite is a Commital that may bind that soul to its resting place or as you put it bind it to Earth.

Edited by violetstar, 10 November 2017 - 03:37 PM.

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#8 monsnoleedra

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 03:58 PM

View Postvioletstar, on 10 November 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

I am drawn back on this to our old discussion on graveyards.In the folklore of the graveyard guardian we find no religious connection to this entity who simply protects hose interred there irrespective of their belief when alive.
We see the same lore attached to megalithic burial cultures though the idea there may vary from tribal tutelary to ancestral guardianship.What is critical here is that ant burial rite is a Commital that may bind that soul to its resting place or as you put it bind it to Earth.

That's where it gets interesting I think.

If the spirit is at a cemetery then the graveyard guardian seem's to have no specific religion I agree. It's more they are assigned to protect those resting there. Sort of like the spirit that protects a city or area in older myths.

Yet when you have a person who dies outside the area or is murdered and their body lies without a proper burial and rites then they tend to "Require" the proper religious rites and burial procedures before their spirit will rest easy. Sort of like the spirit on the Corpse Road, makes one wonder if their spirit ever got to the graveyard? You see them walking or being carried but did they ever actually get there or are they stuck on the journey? Sort of like the Coiste Bodhar, it's the death coach but is it cultural or to some extent religious?

You see something similar at times with battlefield spectre's. Their bodies are destroyed or lost so they roam the battlefield and unable to rest because they can't be laid to rest. So due to an inability to be given proper religious last rites and proper burials. Other's trapped due to a sense of failure or unfinished business as they are trapped in the struggle of the battle they were engaged in at the time of death. In some cases not even aware they are actually dead.

There is a story from one US Civil War battle at Antietam National Park that gets told of a reenactment where a man is dressed as a Southern Re-enactor. He's doing the battle and like the actual battle he's in the woods, it's heavy fog and he comes across a man who is wounded and gives him his gun and ammo to continue the fight. Tries to find the man after the reenactment is over but never does. Of course the name engraved on the weapon belongs to one of the confirmed dead from the battle. Rather a common tale and occurs in some capacity on more than a few battle fields around the world. But the Spirit continues trapped in some capacity trying to fight or aide those who are fighting. Unable to rest and unable to crossover either.

What's interesting is that sometimes the line between cultural and religious is so blurred it's almost impossible to separate. Consider the spirit of the person that is restless at the crossroads due to being hung there. They are trapped due to both a cultural and religious taboo and belief for some punishment. Unable to find their way from the site or back to the area from which they came to cause more trouble or harm. A belief they have to both accept and believe themselves in life and in death for it to be truly effective. Which requires both cultural and religious conviction in that belief to make it hold its effect upon them in the after life.
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#9 violetstar

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 04:44 PM

There are similar stories over here too.Its very interesting the question of whether the spirit actually got to the graveyard.A tale from Cornwall relates to a man who,having been forced into church services by his parents.was after his death being carried along the old track to the churchyard for burial.When the bearers put the coffin down to rest themselves,the mans soul escaped and took refuge in a nearby Cairn which,of course is haunted by him still today.

I cant resist another quip from Coleman who after contacting a departed spirit,asked what it was like in the next world.The spirit replied that where he was there were "a lot of people milling around waiting for the Resurrection" :)

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