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Qaballah, Elements, And The Logos Or Christ Mysteries.


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#1 ChaosTech

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 08:03 PM

I posted an interesting idea I found in a book, about the Kabbalah, in which the tree of life with its 10 seperahs or spheres, would be perfectly shaped, not looking more like a tree, if Tipareth, moved up with the seperah below it, all the way to Malkuth, and filled in the absent Daath.

Now Tipareth is the savior, in Christian Cabbala Jesus Christ (Yeshua, Yod (Fire) Heh (Air) Shin (Spirit) Vau (Earth) Heh(Water)), being the center of the circle, God made flesh.

Studying the elements, they can be anything but a simple summary gets the point.

Spirit = Everywhere but Nowhere, Transcendent but Immanent. The Whole, both now, before, and forever after dispite the nature of the Cosmos, manifest or unmanifest. God, where everyone, everything, and unmanifest beyond are complete. Not an annihilation, just unfathomable, being something nondual, beyond choice, individual, and the great Mystery. Storing as Spirit the word implies, an essence, summary, or template, of all that will ever be and is.

Fire = Heaven, Life (force), Mana, Soul, Will, sight, perception, feeling.

Air = Mind, data, saving or memory, uplifter.

Earth = Form, body, nature, physics, beauty.

Water = Ego, base, the self, emotions, mirror.


Now the elements forever coexist, but go through over all cycles of time.

In the beginning as Genesis says Gods Spirit hovered over the waters, then the earth was formed, sky, then celestial, etc. Humanity or sentient beings were made the 6th day, then the last God rested. Now the original Sabbath was Saturday, and so the 6th day would be Friday, the lovers card in the tarot.

So first the water, which symbolizes sterility, simplicity, and the dead, and its Age reigned. This is the Age of the Fall, division. Entering matter, incarnation.

Then comes the Age of Earth. This is not death but, mortality. Dying. Darkness greater then light, but both. To not be dead, but to die. It's beautiful but painful.

Next the Air element comes into its Age. Christ, the mind, the logos or mind of God being made known to humanity. Gods son, as God even more is the next, Fire.

The Air element is more light then dark, so dies, but is resurrected. So the number 2, and to die, but then live. Equilibrium. The Final Judgement but first a period of grace.

Last Age which hasn't happened yet, is Fire. Summer, Heaven, the light ruling over all four elements. Reward, creativity, getting back to the purpose of reality. Not to fall, but to live forever. Literally forever, as When "the son submits unto the father and God makes all in all," as the Bible says, is not an age. No one can truly fathom God, the Spirit. Wholeness and Perfection.

All we can know is that one can not enter spirit being both a part of all, interconnectivity, as well as self. Also we know choice is dual, and God is a mystery, being paradoxal in the mind.

After 20 years, this alchemy and magic led me to Jesus Christ, and the Bible dispite the corruption and ignorance of the Church in its childish faith, mocking the intelligent and especially wise. The lion and the lamb my friends. Power with wisdom, faith with knowing. :) <3


For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

#2 violetstar

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 08:20 PM

For 'Age' I recommend 'Aeon' to give the sense of mystical ambiguity.Time limited or Limitless as in 'The Limitless Light' or the Ain Spoh Aur.

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#3 ChaosTech

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 08:36 PM

Yes that's better indeed.


For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

#4 violetstar

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 08:48 PM

And for 'Spirit' as the 5th Element I recommend 'Time'.This allows us to consider 'Time' as the 5th Element we first enter a whole new abstract way of thinking which by default leads us into understanding how each mode of consciousness exists and their relationship to each other within their respective worlds.

This abstraction can be seen within the Sacro-mysticism of the Holy Qabalah where it is said how the Planetary lives are composed after death,of 10 Dreams of 100 years each which has its manifestation as one Solar Life of equal length.

Thus it is said that in the eyes of God,1000 years are as one day.Therefore explaining the Creation in 6000 years considering He rests for the one day.

Edited by violetstar, 14 October 2017 - 08:55 PM.

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#5 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 09:29 PM

View PostChaosTech, on 14 October 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

I posted an interesting idea I found in a book, about the Kabbalah, in which the tree of life with its 10 seperahs or spheres, would be perfectly shaped, not looking more like a tree, if Tipareth, moved up with the seperah below it, all the way to Malkuth, and filled in the absent Daath. lion and the lamb my friends. Power with wisdom, faith with knowing.
Are you talking about a tree like this one?

Posted Image

If so, what you're actually referring to is called the "pre-fall" Tree of Life in some of the literature that talks about it. It shows Da'ath in its original position before it fell down hanging like a pendulum to form Malkuth. That is how the area known as Da'ath became the Abyss.

#6 violetstar

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 10:39 PM

Where does the idea of a 'pre-fall' Tree come from?

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#7 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:51 AM

You're on your own with answering that one because I don't know its original source. Probably from some archaic work of Hebrew fiction. I just know it seems to come up in most of what I've read regarding the creation process of the tree when explaining how Da'ath became a non-sephira, i.e. it fell from its original position and became Malkuth. In the more orthodox Jewish versions of Kabbalah the pre-fall tree tends to be referred to as the Gra tree and the tree that most of us here know in the Hermetic tradition is the Ari tree. There should be enough to go by there if you want to research its origins to determine for yourself if the idea is legitimate.

#8 ChaosTech

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 05:38 AM

Yes Naly that is it friend!


For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

#9 Spida

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 12:08 AM

I did have a theory at one time, and then later saw the schematic of the Tree in concentric circle form which fits better with the actual expansion of the Primordial point, i.e. The Big Bang. After the Initial expansion and the first division of God, the Supernal Triad. Which occurred at superluminal speed, the expansion slowed, and continues to slow, and will eventually reverse and be drawn back to the source. Here the Formula of IAO and the Hermetic principle of Rhythm comes into play as this is a dynamic never ending process of Creation and Destruction.

So it was the initial speed of the expansion that created the Abyss. After formation of the Triad the process slowed resulting in a far greater distance between the first Three Sephiroth and the remaining Seven.

This is my own theory that I devised when integrating Cosmology with Qabalah. So it is what it is.

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#10 Spida

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 08:46 AM

I agree with ChaosTech as far as the 5th Element being Spirit, and if I were to call it anything other than Spirit, I would call it Consciousness. It is in fact Consciousness that creates Time, and also Space, ergo Four Dimensional Spacetime. The Framework of our reality construct. Time in the Macrocosm is change, and a perceived passing of moments in the Microcosm.

So in summary, Time is the Fourth Dimension, and not the 5th Element. In my opinion of course.

#11 violetstar

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 09:54 AM

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 16 October 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

You're on your own with answering that one because I don't know its original source. Probably from some archaic work of Hebrew fiction. I just know it seems to come up in most of what I've read regarding the creation process of the tree when explaining how Da'ath became a non-sephira, i.e. it fell from its original position and became Malkuth. In the more orthodox Jewish versions of Kabbalah the pre-fall tree tends to be referred to as the Gra tree and the tree that most of us here know in the Hermetic tradition is the Ari tree. There should be enough to go by there if you want to research its origins to determine for yourself if the idea is legitimate.
I do not see the question of validity arising,rather one of personal preference.The Gra Tree of Elijah ben Solomon Zalman is a later development of Isaac Luria's Ari ('Lion') version.Both have an issue of claimed polemical construction,Luria;s being an explanatory response to the plight of the Jews expulsion and persecution under Spanish Catholics in 1492.He combined Jewish mysticism with ethics.
The later Gra was seen as a community response to the establishment of Hasidic Judaism in Lithuania.

My own opinion is that the 'Perfected' Tree is a Christian construct at odds with for example the Palestinian Talmud where the tekhelet is exalted in its mysticism Herzog,Scholem et al.Within that schema the idea of Malkhut being formed by Da'ath does not allow for its Waters and is too reliant on the Genesis story of the Garden of Eden.In Rabbinic Judaism the Garden was seen as divided into two areas,the Higher and Lower:one in Heaven and one on Earth analogous to Sheol.This is an entirely different concept to the Christian interpretation.

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#12 Atridr

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 11:38 PM

I would only say, that there is connection between the name Da'at(knowledge) and the nature of abyss, and why it must be crossed. But that is just my opinion.

#13 Spida

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 08:59 AM

View Postvioletstar, on 17 October 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

I do not see the question of validity arising,rather one of personal preference.The Gra Tree of Elijah ben Solomon Zalman is a later development of Isaac Luria's Ari ('Lion') version.Both have an issue of claimed polemical construction,Luria;s being an explanatory response to the plight of the Jews expulsion and persecution under Spanish Catholics in 1492.He combined Jewish mysticism with ethics.
The later Gra was seen as a community response to the establishment of Hasidic Judaism in Lithuania.

My own opinion is that the 'Perfected' Tree is a Christian construct at odds with for example the Palestinian Talmud where the tekhelet is exalted in its mysticism Herzog,Scholem et al.Within that schema the idea of Malkhut being formed by Da'ath does not allow for its Waters and is too reliant on the Genesis story of the Garden of Eden.In Rabbinic Judaism the Garden was seen as divided into two areas,the Higher and Lower:one in Heaven and one on Earth analogous to Sheol.This is an entirely different concept to the Christian interpretation.

I do believe it to be a question of validity. If the original Tree was modified with regard to a "polemic construction", then I would be interested in seeing what it was modified from. So this is where the "perfected tree" comes into the picture? And the comment about "personal preference"? So it does not matter, choose whichever you like? E.g, My favorite color is Black. It's a matter of personal preference? This is Kabbalah and the Tree of Life we are talking about. I believe it's authenticity, and choice thereof to be more than a matter of personal preference. In my own opinion.

The Gra Tree appears the same as the Perfected Tree from what I have seen so far. They do have a symmetry that the Ari Tree lacks. I do also wonder if there could be two valid versions. The Perfected Tree is an Archetypal Tree, whereas the Ari Model is arranged to diagram the process of initiation/ascension.

I remember seeing in a documentary a while back that Kabbalah was given to the Jews intact. In this scenario it was not re-formulated, so perhaps this was the Perfected Tree? So the Gra Tree is given In conforming with the original without any polemic influence?

#14 violetstar

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:44 AM

If we applied a rule of validity or legitimacy such mandates would still be governed by preference,bias or point of view.For example,the Hermetic Kabbalah that can be traced back in origin to Eliphas Levi and made popular by Dion Fortune and Crowley is not recognised as valid by the more purist Jewish Kabbalists.
That system which your blog content suggests you subscribe to,contains no lore or religious precepts from the Zohar or Messianism after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain set off a chain reaction that led from the Lurianic Kabbalah, to Sabbatian messianism, and finally to secularization and the Haskalah.

While traditionally associated with Jewish mysticism, Kabbalah has a rich history and has been studied from many perspectives including Jewish, Christian, Egyptian, Gnostic, Sufi, Hermetic, Universal, and many others.This itself illustrates why I remarked that validity is a matter of personal choice.

Moshe Cordovero produced the first full integration of the previous differing schools in Kabbalistic interpretation. While he was a mystic inspired by the opaque imagery of the Zohar,Cordoverian Kabbalah utilised the conceptual framework of evolving cause and effect from the Infinite to the Finite in systemising Kabbalah, the method of philosophical style discourse he held most effective in describing a process that reflects sequential logic and coherence. His encyclopaedic works became a central stage in the development of Kabbalah.

Immediately after Cordovero, Isaac Luria articulated a subsequent system of Kabbalistic theology, with new supra-rational doctrines recasting previous Kabbalistic thought. While Lurianism displaced the Cordoverian scheme and became predominant in Judaism, its followers read Cordoverian works in harmony with their teachings. Where to them, Lurianism described the "World" of Rectification, Cordovero described the pre-Rectification World.[3] Both articulations of the 16th century mystical Renaissance in Safed gave Kabbalah an intellectual prominence to rival Medieval Rationalism, whose social influence on Judaism had waned after the Expulsion from Spain.-Wiki

Hope this helps.

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#15 violetstar

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:46 AM

View PostAtridr, on 18 October 2017 - 11:38 PM, said:

I would only say, that there is connection between the name Da'at(knowledge) and the nature of abyss, and why it must be crossed. But that is just my opinion.
Your opinion counts.What connection do you see there?

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#16 Spida

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 10:33 AM

View Postvioletstar, on 19 October 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Moshe Cordovero produced the first full integration of the previous differing schools in Kabbalistic interpretation. While he was a mystic inspired by the opaque imagery of the Zohar,Cordoverian Kabbalah utilised the conceptual framework of evolving cause and effect from the Infinite to the Finite in systemising Kabbalah, the method of philosophical style discourse he held most effective in describing a process that reflects sequential logic and coherence. His encyclopaedic works became a central stage in the development of Kabbalah.

I would think this is crucial, and am surprised I do not see more of this from you; of course you are a Historian, afterall. Which is quite evident in your style of writing. I do feel that it is very important that Kabbalah be unified with a Modern Cosmology as this adds much substance and strengthens the paradigm as much as possible without the aid of Mysticism, or perhaps may even invalidate it, rationally. Which in my experience hasn't happened yet, quite the contrary. The Mystical experience may fill in some of the gray areas, but a solid foundation should definitely be considered non-negligle, ergo my interest in this topic.

There are some historical aspects where my own research would be needed, and that requiring more thought.

Edited by Spida, 19 October 2017 - 02:09 PM.


#17 Spida

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 02:15 AM

"If we applied a rule of validity or legitimacy such mandates would still be governed by preference,bias or point of view.For example,the Hermetic Kabbalah that can be traced back in origin to Eliphas Levi and made popular by Dion Fortune and Crowley is not recognised as valid by the more purist Jewish Kabbalists.
That system which your blog content suggests you subscribe to,contains no lore or religious precepts from the Zohar or Messianism after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain set off a chain reaction that led from the Lurianic Kabbalah, to Sabbatian messianism, and finally to secularization and the Haskalah."


I do not subscribe to any one System, the Hermetic Qabalah that you refer to is only supplemental, although moderately substantial at this point. Any paradigm that I investigate must eventually be thoroughly contemplated without significant errors, otherwise it is discarded, furthermore, I am not reliant on any System in attaining obscure knowledge and greater understanding. Most of the above italicized is irrelevant.

Edited by Spida, 20 October 2017 - 02:43 AM.


#18 violetstar

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:15 AM

Seems contradictory.Which parts of the italicised content is irrelevant to my original opinion that validity is dictated by personal opinion?

If the Hermetic version is only supplemental to your system where in it do you render any non-Hermetic teachings or Zohar wisdoms?

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#19 Spida

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:28 AM

View Postvioletstar, on 20 October 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

Seems contradictory.Which parts of the italicised content is irrelevant to my original opinion that validity is dictated by personal opinion?

If the Hermetic version is only supplemental to your system where in it do you render any non-Hermetic teachings or Zohar wisdoms?

It seems contradictory, or it is contradictory? There is a difference you know, maybe you are confused like the person in that thread I commented on last night, something to do with the Micro and Macrocosms. One of your favorite subjects.
Anyway, seriously? You should know better than this, having stated(like I didn't know anyways) that you read my Blog, that my foundation is a Universal Cosmology, of which I have integrated the Qabalah with.

#20 violetstar

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 11:12 AM

Universal Cosmology.Biblical.Religious or Scientific based?A foundation integrated with other elements becomes a syncretism.This aptly describes Hermeticism.Who is confused?

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