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Ghosts, Spirits, And Gods


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#1 Monkey Sage

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 04:29 PM

I have views on supernatural things which seem to rub a lot of witches the wrong way. Fortunately it’s only a very small percentage of people who get upset with me over them, the rest are polite and understand that these views aren’t intend to be picked up by others - they’re just for me and allow me to make sense of the world from my perspective.

Ghosts: I believe in ghosts, but I don’t believe they’re just spectral people who wander around being spooky. Ghosts are often described as repeating the same things they did in life, sometimes the last thing they did in life before dying, unaware and unable to interact with the living. I truly believe this is a powerful metaphor. Ghosts, in my opinion, are powerful memories. Memories of people and tragedies and places that have stuck in our collective consciousness. When we visit a historical site we might say that it’s “haunted by the memories of what happened here.” We don’t mean that translucent people wander around the place, we mean that we all know what occurred and we are taking this time to reflect on it and imagine what it must have been like to be there. In our minds we “conjure” these “ghosts” to make that time and space real, and in that way we experience and develop empathy, compassion, and other virtuous qualities.

Spirits: I think of spirits in much the same way as ghosts but they’re more abstract. I think of the “spirit of the forest” as being the energy, mood, life/death/rebirth of that forest - everything that has ever happened there. The spirit of that forest is your experience of the forest, too. How it makes you feel, what happens to you while you’re there, the mark you leave on it (for however long that mark lasts before it, too, is recycled). You can have beach spirits, fire spirits, wind spirits, house spirits, party spirits, spirits of specific times in your life (”teen spirit”), spirits of specific ideas (”team spirit”, “that’s the spirit!”). Spirits aren’t spectral people with magical powers, they’re abstractions given power and purpose and recognize as being distinct from other phenomenon by our recognition of them. That’s right - spirits can’t exist all on their own. They need us, a conscious and perceiving person to interact with them in a way that allows them to exist. Because if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Gods: I’ve been at paganism and spirituality for a long time and the longer I practice, the less I know about the gods and the more I understand. The distinction between knowing and understanding is important for any Witch. I can’t say much about gods definitively because the gods are to definitions what the Mongols are to history.

Edited by Monkey Sage, 09 October 2017 - 04:29 PM.

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#2 violetstar

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 05:13 PM

Not sure why your views would rub witches the wrong way.The rabbits are cute!

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#3 Monkey Sage

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:22 PM

View Postvioletstar, on 09 October 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Not sure why your views would rub witches the wrong way.The rabbits are cute!
Most of the witches I come across are new to magic and so they start out building their magical view of the world not unlike that of a roleplaying game. They believe every problem in their lives is due to be haunted or cursed. Usually they sound so concerned and worried so I try to alleviate their concern by explaining "the good news is that magic doesn't work like that" or "the good news is that ghosts aren't real" (I don't dismiss the way they feel, I acknowledge and validate their experience while also offering some insight into their perceived predicament).

Because my response isn't to re-enforce a worldview I don't believe in and hand them a magic stone of +3 luck, they usually respond with the sentiment of "take your negativity somewhere else" or "I don't like that you're implying I'm delusional".

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#4 violetstar

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 07:27 PM

I doubt they are witches.I feel some of your thoughts need re-evaluation especially the one that suggests spirits cant exist on their own.

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#5 monsnoleedra

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:13 PM

I only have one question for the OP.

How do you explain the sighting of ghostly images and / or sounds at places when the person has no knowledge of the history of such occurrences and the place has no historical significance? Sorry, you seem to be trying to imply it's all psychosomatic on the part of the person who experiences something.

Not to say I don't disagree that there is a large probability that many probably do "Create" their own ghostly encounters through self creation and suggestion when they visit various places. Nor would I rule out the power of suggestion within a group dynamic.

To give an example I was about 15 and walking home one night along a stretch of road I had walked probably a thousand times. Was a common road in fact, just a plain paved road. Yet this night I ran into an older man who just sort of came out of no where and told me I needed to get off the road and cross over the railroad tracks and cut through the old apple orchard. He seemed really concerned and worried and I felt "Compelled" to do as he said. Needless to say I did. Well there was a pretty bad auto wreck on that road about the time and place I'd have been at had I stayed walking on it. Would I have been involved? Probably.

Never saw that man before, never saw him in the flesh again. Did see him in a photo though. Happened to be going through so old family photo's and there he was. Same old face, same old eyes and smile, heck even had the same old clothes that I remembered he was wearing. Asked my mother who he was. She couldn't recall exactly who he was, just an uncle or something. It was an old picture. All she really remembered about him was he died the day I was born. About 15 years earlier, in another state.

But by your explanation and logic I made it up as ghost don't exist and no man showed up to direct me to take a different path off of that road that night.

However, by some people's definition's I'm a ghost. I died and life returned to my body and I live again to walk the earth for a bit more. Just happened to luck out and my original body wasn't destroyed or buried and I got to return to it. That one really screws with people's heads.
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#6 Monkey Sage

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 08:54 PM

View Postmonsnoleedra, on 09 October 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

How do you explain the sighting of ghostly images and / or sounds at places when the person has no knowledge of the history of such occurrences and the place has no historical significance? Sorry, you seem to be trying to imply it's all psychosomatic on the part of the person who experiences something.
I think it's relatively easy to explain how this happens. The mind loves patterns, it will see faces in toast, human figures in the rain - it's an amazing thing. The way the mind will just "make up" information that is lacking so that we get to enjoy optical illusions and motion pictures is a pretty fantastic and, dare I say, magical thing. When someone sees a ghostly image or hears a ghostly sound, I 100% believe what's happening is their mind is doing what it naturally does - it fills in gaps, it creates meaning where there is a lack of information, and it fills our world is wonder and understanding. After having such an experience, it's a relatively simple matter of matching up the experience with historical occurrences (in the case of places with history) or some other explanation.

I don't doubt that these experiences are real, when someone says they saw something - I believe them. I believe they saw what they said they saw. I just don't believe that what they saw was what they are now telling themselves they saw. It's a thing we all do - we narrate our reality and our experiences. We tell ourselves stories about what we see and hear and feel. We can't help it. I've seen plenty of ghosts and spirits and I don't question those experiences, but I don't believe my stories about them.

It's actually not my intent to say "ghosts aren't real" or "spirits are just a hallucination". It's actually to try to point out that reality, the universe, is far more weird, interactive at the level of pure consciousness, and wondrously fascinating than we might think it is. I honestly believe that when we see a ghost and we say "oh that's the ghost of such-and-such a person who died in this way on that night" and we just leave it at that, content to just go with that story alone, that we do ourselves a massive disservice because the reality of what we just experienced in seeing that ghost is so much richer and deeper than "I saw a translucent person once".

View Postmonsnoleedra, on 09 October 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

To give an example I was about 15 and walking home one night along a stretch of road I had walked probably a thousand times. Was a common road in fact, just a plain paved road. Yet this night I ran into an older man who just sort of came out of no where and told me I needed to get off the road and cross over the railroad tracks and cut through the old apple orchard. He seemed really concerned and worried and I felt "Compelled" to do as he said. Needless to say I did. Well there was a pretty bad auto wreck on that road about the time and place I'd have been at had I stayed walking on it. Would I have been involved? Probably.

Never saw that man before, never saw him in the flesh again. Did see him in a photo though. Happened to be going through so old family photo's and there he was. Same old face, same old eyes and smile, heck even had the same old clothes that I remembered he was wearing. Asked my mother who he was. She couldn't recall exactly who he was, just an uncle or something. It was an old picture. All she really remembered about him was he died the day I was born. About 15 years earlier, in another state.

But by your explanation and logic I made it up as ghost don't exist and no man showed up to direct me to take a different path off of that road that night.
I would never say that you made up a ghost. I believe that what happened to you really did happen. I also don't trust human memory to be reliable enough to put all of our experiences and facts together in ways that can be solidly shown to be fool-proof. It's a known thing in psychology and neuroscience that our memories aren't the best they could be - we often misremember events as they're happening right in front of us. Our minds are very, very powerful things.

So while I don't at all doubt what happened to you, I'm not entirely sold on the story or the explanation but, ultimately, it doesn't matter. What matters is what that experience meant to you. It clearly had an impact on you, shaped you in some small way, and I'm sure it's just one example of many wonderful and mysterious things you've encountered in your life.

View Postmonsnoleedra, on 09 October 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

However, by some people's definition's I'm a ghost. I died and life returned to my body and I live again to walk the earth for a bit more. Just happened to luck out and my original body wasn't destroyed or buried and I got to return to it. That one really screws with people's heads.
Actually, I'd say that there are several ghosts of you in this world. You exist in the memories of people I'm sure you've lost contact with. Bits of their memory of you seep into their world, and they may see things that remind them of you - consciously or unconsciously. You haunt them even now, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be very endearing. We can even haunt ourselves. Have you ever gone through some really old things of yours, found things that you had forgotten about, and suddenly you remember this entire life you once lived that somehow you had completely forgotten?

I'm not saying ghosts and spirits aren't real or magical or mysterious ... I'm trying to say that they are far more magical and mysterious than we've let ourselves believe. Their reality - our reality - is so much weirder and wondrous than we may be content to allow ourselves to believe it is.

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#7 monsnoleedra

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 09:43 PM

View PostMonkey Sage, on 09 October 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

I think it's relatively easy to explain how this happens. The mind loves patterns, it will see faces in toast, human figures in the rain - it's an amazing thing. The way the mind will just "make up" information that is lacking so that we get to enjoy optical illusions and motion pictures is a pretty fantastic and, dare I say, magical thing. When someone sees a ghostly image or hears a ghostly sound, I 100% believe what's happening is their mind is doing what it naturally does - it fills in gaps, it creates meaning where there is a lack of information, and it fills our world is wonder and understanding. After having such an experience, it's a relatively simple matter of matching up the experience with historical occurrences (in the case of places with history) or some other explanation.

I don't doubt that these experiences are real, when someone says they saw something - I believe them. I believe they saw what they said they saw. I just don't believe that what they saw was what they are now telling themselves they saw. It's a thing we all do - we narrate our reality and our experiences. We tell ourselves stories about what we see and hear and feel. We can't help it. I've seen plenty of ghosts and spirits and I don't question those experiences, but I don't believe my stories about them.

It's actually not my intent to say "ghosts aren't real" or "spirits are just a hallucination". It's actually to try to point out that reality, the universe, is far more weird, interactive at the level of pure consciousness, and wondrously fascinating than we might think it is. I honestly believe that when we see a ghost and we say "oh that's the ghost of such-and-such a person who died in this way on that night" and we just leave it at that, content to just go with that story alone, that we do ourselves a massive disservice because the reality of what we just experienced in seeing that ghost is so much richer and deeper than "I saw a translucent person once".

I agree that matrixing is a common human methodology in trying to comprehend our surrounding and situations but especially influencing in so called paranormal activities and instances. What's interesting is human's aren't the only one's who do it either. I've stood still and watched deer trying to figure out what they are looking at as they stare at me. See them turn their head'd, snort, stomp their hooves trying to put the shadow's or shapes into some kind of image that fits with the odor's and shapes they know.

I do agree to a degree about what a person saw against what they are later relating about what they saw. I know personally I got in the habit of recording things right then and there about what I think I saw or witnessed. If I have a recorder I record it and will never change that initial record and advise others to do the same. Even when they are recording it later I advise them to write a first draft as they recall it and just write it out, don't erase, don't spell check or correct, just write it out. Don't go back and edit or anything. Don't do anything to change what is written there. The closer to the event the better.

If they feel compelled to write about it later fine but never ever go back and change the initial write-up. When they ask me why I tell them because as they write or tell the story they will always "Remember" things they forgot. Doesn't mean they actually remember it or actually forgot it, it just fills in the pieces and makes the story better and seems logical to them. Even to the point where eventually it will no longer even sound like what they initially recorded or wrote down.

I know I am a self doubter all the time. I question did I really see, hear, etc what I though I saw, heard, etc. Even when their is physical evidence at the time as it moves further away in time I begin to doubt it. If not doubt it then question my conclusions about it.

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I would never say that you made up a ghost. I believe that what happened to you really did happen. I also don't trust human memory to be reliable enough to put all of our experiences and facts together in ways that can be solidly shown to be fool-proof. It's a known thing in psychology and neuroscience that our memories aren't the best they could be - we often misremember events as they're happening right in front of us. Our minds are very, very powerful things.

So while I don't at all doubt what happened to you, I'm not entirely sold on the story or the explanation but, ultimately, it doesn't matter. What matters is what that experience meant to you. It clearly had an impact on you, shaped you in some small way, and I'm sure it's just one example of many wonderful and mysterious things you've encountered in your life.

I agree. Not only reliable but I think it also goes back to that association aspect. So while one series of associations might be crystal clear another might be weak and unstable at best. Which I think tends to really screw up our time lines in placing things in memory order and recall. One moment were thinking about something from our twenties for instance then suddenly there is a memory from childhood that makes no logical sense but it's there from some association.

I admit I have wondered at times about time displacement visions where a person suddenly finds themselves seeing through the eyes of a child for instance. They can't place it but associate it to a ghostly situation yet there is also a sense of knowing.


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Actually, I'd say that there are several ghosts of you in this world. You exist in the memories of people I'm sure you've lost contact with. Bits of their memory of you seep into their world, and they may see things that remind them of you - consciously or unconsciously. You haunt them even now, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be very endearing. We can even haunt ourselves. Have you ever gone through some really old things of yours, found things that you had forgotten about, and suddenly you remember this entire life you once lived that somehow you had completely forgotten?

Most definitely. But then some might say you could also be crossing into psychometry. But then that to crosses into the ghost cabinet I suppose.

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I'm not saying ghosts and spirits aren't real or magical or mysterious ... I'm trying to say that they are far more magical and mysterious than we've let ourselves believe. Their reality - our reality - is so much weirder and wondrous than we may be content to allow ourselves to believe it is.

That I completely agree with.
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#8 Monkey Sage

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 10:49 PM

Great reply, monsnoleedra! Thank you for asking the right questions and giving me a chance. I definitely agree with everything you wrote and I'm grateful that you were willing to hear me out.

You mentioning time-displacement visions is very interesting to me because I understand these things to be meaningful outside of what they are. To me, they are an act of empathy and an exercise in the miracle that is our ability to imagine. I know the idea of 'the imagination" gets a lot of flak, but I hold it to be one of our most powerful and sacred abilities. I don't like the interpretation that "you must've imagined it" to mean "it's inconsequential/nonsense". Especially when you consider the very real fact that our bodies react the same way to real threats as they do to imagined ones. Our bodies do not know the difference, and we can experience elevated heart rate, rapid breathing, and a rise in the stress hormone just by imaging ourselves being in a stressful situation.

Time-displacement visions are a wonderful example of not just this power we have, but also of our ability to empathise with people we've never known personally (at least in this lifetime). Being able to put yourself in someone's shoes, to view life and things from their perspective and their circumstances. This is a beautiful thing that I think most people would benefit from practicing. In Tibetan Buddhism there is a beautiful practice called the Four Point Exchange of Self and Other, and it's a powerful way of developing compassion and understanding for other people - even people we don't get along with.

In my view, whether or not someone is actually seeing through time (which I honestly don't believe is possible, but please don't interpret that to mean that I don't respect you or your views because I do) doesn't matter so much as this wonderful and powerful act of creating reality with our minds and developing empathy simultaneously is taking place.

One thing you made me think of, that I forgot to mention, was that I also believe that for ghosts and spirits to really exist (such as they do), they need us to interact with them (I consider perceiving to be a form of interaction). It's related to the idea of the mind as illumination - it's not just that it is light, but that it also lights whatever it is directed toward, giving it power and agency and meaning. Perhaps when I wrote earlier that ghosts/spirits can't exist on their own, that wasn't exactly what I mean, but rather what I meant was that ghosts/spirits mostly don't exist on their own or, maybe, it's that they don't meaningfully exist on their own.

I think we've all heard stories about haunted places that only seem to come to life when people are paying attention to those places - entering them, thinking about them, researching thing. Our interaction with these things matters a great deal, and that's a clue into the nature of these beings. Their existence is interdependent with ours. This is also why non-magical and atheist folk experience very little to no spiritual activity in their lives - they are actively choosing not to interact with those elements, so those elements don't have that vital component that is our conscious attention that allows them to become active.

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#9 monsnoleedra

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 12:45 AM

Time displacement visions are sort of interesting. One can see them in the sense of visualizing through a person's mental and emotional attachment. What's sort of interesting, well to me anyway, is that in the west it's not touched upon to much but in the East I saw it more. Well what one might define as European West, as a concept it is found in many first nation and aboriginal peoples.

In what some might call the Warrior Shamanic pathways you see what might be seen as displacement visions where you see encounter's that are combatant in nature but you train and move through them to learn and anticipate / experience. At times stepping onto a place and almost ghost walking through a ritual or fight to actually experience the sensations and visions. In some ways I suppose it might be equatable to the Ghost Dance's and such but the physical pain and such is not specifically part of it always. Yet it is not what you might call vision questing or journey work though those do have many similarities in that they are displacement type visions.

I personally think time is all present so all things are happening at once. It's only for us it's normally linear in perception and then very truncated at that. Yet since it is omni-present and multi-dimensional in that all possibilities must also happen it seems logical to me that there will be points where the layers will bleed through. We might call it deja vu where they bleed through or appear to drag one behind the other. Heck we might even say it's a mirage or some other affect / effect where two nearly identical dimensional time & linear planes meet and conditions exists that allow people or entities to cross over in some capacity. But it doesn't mean they will be existing at exactly the same moment in time history

I think one issue we have as a species with the idea of time is the paradox of time. We almost go to great lengths to convince ourselves that we can't exist in the same time as ourselves less we create a time paradox. The idea that two exact copies of a thing would create a destructive paradox should it encounter itself. Heaven forbid the very though of occupying the same physical reality or space.much less debating the actual concept of the same creative material being used functionally twice or more in the same universal time sequence and existing. It defies the notion that matter can not be created or destroyed if the same physical matter can actually exist side by side at the same time through some time manipulation process. Sort of the notion that the sperm from the grandson could be the same sperm that fertilized his grandmother to create his father which ensured his creation. Yet how could he exist to go back and fertilize his own grandmother if he had not existed to begin with? The paradox of time.

But if he could see through time, project his spirit through time to influence. Then did he cause his creation and cause his grandmother to become pregnant? Thus influencing his own creation and presence.

That used to be the type of discussions the people I hung around with had back in the day as it were. Ironically that was part of the world of occultism I knew back in the late 70's and early 80's and to a large extent many of those I served with in the military who also fell under the occult banner's back then.

Ironically that also tied into your other point being that the spirits of the dead and other entities tend to become more active or noticed when we change our ways. When we change how we view and relate to the world and how we see and illuminate it it changes how it becomes illuminated around us. We change the vibration and illumination of what is being shown and brightened then things take notice. When they take notice and we notice them they tend to notice us. If we respond they respond. The more we respond the more they respond. In some ways it's like the old party phone lines, the more people start talking on them the more people start to pick them up and listen in and start to talk on them. Yet once the conversations start to drop off then the talkers slowly start to fade away and drift away until the line goes silent once again. Yet a few hang onto the line in the hopes that once again the line will come alive ..
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#10 violetstar

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 03:40 PM

I have a pdf Phd thesis on the belief in ghosts.Titled as Belief in Ghosts in Post-War England it is in fact much more than that with some really good anecdotes and analysis from various disciplines.

If anyone is interested then PM me with an email address and I will send it.

@Mons I have sent it to you anyway as I think its your type of stuff.

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#11 monsnoleedra

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:32 PM

Violetstar, thank you look forward to reading it.
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#12 Spida

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:24 AM

View Postmonsnoleedra, on 09 October 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

I only have one question for the OP.

How do you explain the sighting of ghostly images and / or sounds at places when the person has no knowledge of the history of such occurrences and the place has no historical significance? Sorry, you seem to be trying to imply it's all psychosomatic on the part of the person who experiences something.

Not to say I don't disagree that there is a large probability that many probably do "Create" their own ghostly encounters through self creation and suggestion when they visit various places. Nor would I rule out the power of suggestion within a group dynamic.

To give an example I was about 15 and walking home one night along a stretch of road I had walked probably a thousand times. Was a common road in fact, just a plain paved road. Yet this night I ran into an older man who just sort of came out of no where and told me I needed to get off the road and cross over the railroad tracks and cut through the old apple orchard. He seemed really concerned and worried and I felt "Compelled" to do as he said. Needless to say I did. Well there was a pretty bad auto wreck on that road about the time and place I'd have been at had I stayed walking on it. Would I have been involved? Probably.

Never saw that man before, never saw him in the flesh again. Did see him in a photo though. Happened to be going through so old family photo's and there he was. Same old face, same old eyes and smile, heck even had the same old clothes that I remembered he was wearing. Asked my mother who he was. She couldn't recall exactly who he was, just an uncle or something. It was an old picture. All she really remembered about him was he died the day I was born. About 15 years earlier, in another state.

But by your explanation and logic I made it up as ghost don't exist and no man showed up to direct me to take a different path off of that road that night.

However, by some people's definition's I'm a ghost. I died and life returned to my body and I live again to walk the earth for a bit more. Just happened to luck out and my original body wasn't destroyed or buried and I got to return to it. That one really screws with people's heads.

Thank you. I enjoyed reading that.

I've had similar experiences; the most recent not involving ghosts. It makes me wonder why some people are not considered expendable, while others are left to the wayside. It does seem apparent that some persons that are preserved do have unique, or special qualities, but not always the case, or is it. So you were saved, and perhaps what you are doing now is the reason why.

The Ghost that saved you. Wonder how it was that it seemed to have existed without a body for so long; how this is allowed or possible. Seems to be an exception to a rule, perhaps an Entity that manifested in that form for whatever reason. Anyway it seems to indicate destiny or a plan, and you dying at that time, or even being involved in that situation was not to be part of yours.

Edited by Spida, 13 October 2017 - 11:25 AM.


#13 monsnoleedra

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:47 PM

View PostSpida, on 13 October 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Thank you. I enjoyed reading that.

I've had similar experiences; the most recent not involving ghosts. It makes me wonder why some people are not considered expendable, while others are left to the wayside. It does seem apparent that some persons that are preserved do have unique, or special qualities, but not always the case, or is it. So you were saved, and perhaps what you are doing now is the reason why.

The Ghost that saved you. Wonder how it was that it seemed to have existed without a body for so long; how this is allowed or possible. Seems to be an exception to a rule, perhaps an Entity that manifested in that form for whatever reason. Anyway it seems to indicate destiny or a plan, and you dying at that time, or even being involved in that situation was not to be part of yours.

Your welcome.

I used to wonder about the idea of why some live and some die. It's like I died around the age of 1 from bad medicine. My sister died nearly at the same time from being dropped at birth in the hospital. Over the years since I've had several unusually close calls with death you might say. Like my parents are going out with friends, car pulling out of the driveway and my grandparents suddenly come out of the house and refuse to let me go. A short time late they are in a wreck and my car-seat gets compacted under the front passenger seat, no way I would have survived.

Yet as strange as that part is some say the strange part is they have sensed my sister's spirit both in me and around me. So when I died did I bring part of her spirit back? Did I catch part of her spirit's destiny? Did the fear and grief of my parents connection to me cause my sister's young spirit to connect to me even as she lay in my mother's womb? I can say that I know my sister's spirit has aged and grown with me over the years though she seem's to come and go at times. But some of my family and more than a few "teachers" have said many lesson's on my path have been influenced by her presence. Which is interesting in that they were not added because of her presence only changed due to her presence. Which according to some of the female practitioners I've known says it's made me broader in awareness but also to be truthful screwed me up. Why? Because I truly am straddling both sides in some capacities. Or as the Shade of one friend's grandmother likes to say "Your a man! you carry your mother and sister but your not your mother and sister!" There's only a certain depth I can reach into the blood. But because my sister's spirit is both within and beside me that depth is deeper than it should be it seems.

Though others have said it's simply because I died period. Once I died that changed everything and it's what gives the spirits the ability to touch the barriers and take shape and form around us easier. On some level changing the very nature of our energy. I once heard it described as a shutter affect / effect in that like the lenses of a camera since we opened and closed the energy barrier between the gates between life and death we already stand there anyway. So the spirits connected to our lines (blood if you will) can cross back if they desire or need to warn us. Is it true? That I can not prove and to be honest have never really tried all that much. When I have tried to open the gateway I have been successful via talking boards and such. However, I've also found it's real easy to bring parasites back as well even when you think you've been real careful. Sort of like walking around places and shinning a light into the darkness, things will come out.

I wonder at times if that is not actually how guardian's work? Especially in the sense of ancestral ones, they stand at juncture points and when they sense danger to us cross over for short periods of time using our own energy to manifest here. Not the energy of us as individuals but the energy of the barrier for those of us who stand in it. Figure who do you normally see having guardian's? it seems it tends to be children who are close to the birth gates or those who have died and come back which puts them close to the death gates. Yet both call upon ancestral guardians in both cases. As you get older the guardian roles pass to more of an egregore figure of the ancestor but the other and stronger guardian connection seems to be connected to those two gate points and associated ghosts.

Of course just speculation on my part over the years.
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#14 Lumpino

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 04:50 PM

I think it's a little more complicated.
Ghosts as astral remnants without their own will and consciousness, but they may also be like wandering ghosts (spectres) see for example Bardo thedol.
Spirits as a higher spiritual beings = fairies, angels, demons......
Pagan gods as a high spiritual beings.
One can verify it by meditation or magical evocation.





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