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What If Those Who Pursue The Occult And Magic Are Just Deluded?


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#21 Orlando

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 10:17 AM

Regardless of whether or not we are deluding ourselves by pursuing the occult and magic, some practices that most occultist do, such as meditation and yoga, are very beneficial for the mind, body, and soul in this life.
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Edited by Orlando, 10 October 2017 - 10:22 AM.


#22 Atridr

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:30 PM

View PostImperial Arts, on 07 October 2017 - 12:50 AM, said:

A pretty good percentage of people involved in magic are accurately described as delusional, mentally unstable, or just plain crazy. If you don't want to be counted among them, hold yourself to a higher standard.

Be careful of explaining something to yourself well enough to believe it, when you have deliberately overlooked evidence to the contrary. Don't expect that "I do it my way" is always a workable way of doing things. Sometimes you don't get the answers you want, and in those times you have an opportunity to learn and grow instead of deciding it's simpler if you assume you got it right.

If you are finding your results not matching your expectations, the problem is likely somewhere deep. You might have to re-think large portions of your work to catch up to where you thought you already were. That's just how it is.


I must say that for once we agree on something. It's quite unfortunate for the magical community at large that this profession nowadays attracts mostly the foolish and the gullible, while more able minds look the other way. Sometimes it feels like nine out of ten people interested in magick or occult are either psychotic or retarded, but perhaps this can't be helped. Like the Christ said; many are called, but few are chosen.

#23 violetstar

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:58 PM

"Like the Christ said" sounds itself a delusion.I think your feeling that nine out of ten drawn to the Occult are either psychotic or retarded is also born from both a misunderstanding of those mental health issues and your own insecurities.

Edited by violetstar, 10 October 2017 - 08:03 PM.

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#24 Atridr

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:26 AM

View Postvioletstar, on 10 October 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

"Like the Christ said" sounds itself a delusion.I think your feeling that nine out of ten drawn to the Occult are either psychotic or retarded is also born from both a misunderstanding of those mental health issues and your own insecurities.

I would rather think that it's the result of watching this roadshow long enough. But fair enough; it would be better said that perhaps these people aren't psychotic or retarded before they end up in this crowd, but that the pursuit of arcane makes them so in the end. Sad truth is that very few on this path come to light; and that quite many fall by the wayside, broken and burned.

P.S. Since when has quoting the Bible become a delusion?

Edited by Atridr, 11 October 2017 - 07:29 AM.


#25 violetstar

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:33 AM

Quoting the Bible may be delusional if the quote is used to portray a universally accepted truth.Rather than psychotic or retarded I prefer 'Of the moment time wasters ' and 'Bored insecure wannabee somethings'.But I know what you are saying.
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#26 Spida

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:39 PM

The "higher standard" sounds good at minimizing one's own belief that they may be delusional, but good luck in convincing the average person of this "higher standard" that you adhere to. Which exempts you from the typical deluded Occultist. People will automatically assign the Universal [place adjective here] label, but with a little effort this might be undone to a degree.

Edited by Spida, 11 October 2017 - 02:13 PM.


#27 Imperial Arts

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 06:46 PM

View PostSpida, on 11 October 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

The "higher standard" sounds good at minimizing one's own belief that they may be delusional, but good luck in convincing the average person of this "higher standard" that you adhere to.

If you suspect that all your most cherished beliefs might be delusional, you're probably not going to look like too much of a lunatic when discussing occult-related things.

Just a simple example. A few weeks ago, I found an interesting advertisement for some occult-related product, and I wrote to the person producing it. I said something brief, along the lines of "Good job with this, looks great, and could you tell me some things about your company?" In reply, I got a nice list of absurdly-named esoteric orders along with some babble about "praxis" and "gnosis," all put together with no paragraphs and half a page of links to the guy's band website.

I would really have preferred to get something resembling human communication in return, but instead I got the usual occultist myopia. You have to realize, when talking about the mysteries of the universe, that other people might not be aware of your jargon, or your initiatory orders, and might have no clue about whatever higher dimensionality into which some part of your soul has ascended. It's fine if you think those things, or use them as a way to make sense of what you do as a magician, but you have to realize that none of it is standard terminology and that it makes you look like a nut to talk about it in such specific terms.

I think that if more people involved in occultism would just gain a basic understanding of how to communicate, they might not come across as such wackos. You might believe that your Tarot skills are piped into your brain by some remote-operated temporal displacement machines broadcasting from Sirius, but you should also recognize that you can't be absolutely certain of that. Keeping your uncertainties in mind will go a very long way toward keeping other people from dismissing you as a total crackpot, especially when they realize that you are putting forth reasonable effort to be less-uncertain about those things where possible.
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#28 violetstar

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 08:07 PM

It seems ironic that this thread was resurrected and in doing so covered up the video on how to write an essay correctly.Anyone having watched it would have seen on the blackboard the acronym KISS.This stands for 'Keep It Simple Stupid'.

In other words there is no need to use non-standard high faluting long winded obscure jargon to express something when simple words will do.By doing so you simply come across as attempting to convince you hold expertise when further examination will soon reveal you do not.We see this all the time in undergraduates work.

I must agree with IA that communication is thwarted by the use of terminologies only really understood and often peculiar to the writer.For the rest of us,well we dont know what the hell the writer is on about.So yeh,the danger is that you will either be ignored or dismissed as a crackpot by continued use of non-standard words the majority cannot comprehend.
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#29 monsnoleedra

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 09:46 PM

View Postvioletstar, on 11 October 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

.. continued use of non-standard words the majority cannot comprehend.

Not quite the same but that becomes an issue when it's a differences between academic usage and what some call public usage. The so called standard definition is very much not standard definitions between the two groups when it comes to how the words are being defined and actually utilized.
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#30 Jastiv

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:14 AM

I try not to use too much jargon when talking about things. I do this by hanging out with diverse groups that do not overlap at all. The downside of this is the feeling that no one really gets me.

#31 Spida

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:46 PM

View PostImperial Arts, on 11 October 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

If you suspect that all your most cherished beliefs might be delusional, you're probably not going to look like too much of a lunatic when discussing occult-related things.

Just a simple example. A few weeks ago, I found an interesting advertisement for some occult-related product, and I wrote to the person producing it. I said something brief, along the lines of "Good job with this, looks great, and could you tell me some things about your company?" In reply, I got a nice list of absurdly-named esoteric orders along with some babble about "praxis" and "gnosis," all put together with no paragraphs and half a page of links to the guy's band website.

I would really have preferred to get something resembling human communication in return, but instead I got the usual occultist myopia. You have to realize, when talking about the mysteries of the universe, that other people might not be aware of your jargon, or your initiatory orders, and might have no clue about whatever higher dimensionality into which some part of your soul has ascended. It's fine if you think those things, or use them as a way to make sense of what you do as a magician, but you have to realize that none of it is standard terminology and that it makes you look like a nut to talk about it in such specific terms.

I think that if more people involved in occultism would just gain a basic understanding of how to communicate, they might not come across as such wackos. You might believe that your Tarot skills are piped into your brain by some remote-operated temporal displacement machines broadcasting from Sirius, but you should also recognize that you can't be absolutely certain of that. Keeping your uncertainties in mind will go a very long way toward keeping other people from dismissing you as a total crackpot, especially when they realize that you are putting forth reasonable effort to be less-uncertain about those things where possible.

I can see part of this having to do with ego. Some Occultists et al, will deliberately use words that are inconsiderate of the audience for the primary purpose of inflating ego, and they know what they are doing. On the other hand sometimes a bit of complexity is required to convey an idea properly. If this is the case then there is nothing wrong with the reader having to use a Dictionary and learning a new word or two. I still have to do this, and that's fine. So it could at least be said that the Writer should have the readers in mind when composing written works, and incorporating a bit of temperance where required.

The jargon peculiar to various fields of study could be considered separately, but treated the same way to be compatible with an audience. Even exotic historical knowledge can go over a readers head. I also have that problem at times, and don't think it necessary to name names. They know who they are.

#32 violetstar

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:31 PM

Ah..you mean the Kataphatic exploration of Kabbalistic phonemic linkages within historiographies. Gotcha.
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#33 Spida

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 03:09 PM

View Postvioletstar, on 12 October 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Ah..you mean the Kataphatic exploration of Kabbalistic phonemic linkages within historiographies. Gotcha.

Yes Violet, very good example. Thank you.

#34 SilentSeeker

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 03:23 AM

Hola.

View PostThe Stalking Hyena, on 08 October 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

It means you have been promoted.

Uh-oh...that's profoundly worrying, Your Excellency, for the following reason:

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:)

Cheers and Be Well

Edited by SilentSeeker, 15 October 2017 - 03:24 AM.

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#35 The Stalking Hyena

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 01:24 PM

View PostSilentSeeker, on 15 October 2017 - 03:23 AM, said:

Uh-oh...that's profoundly worrying, Your Excellency, for the following reason:


Understood. Just take it a step at a time. You got this.

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