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#1 violetstar

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:00 PM


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#2 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 06:18 PM

Thank you for posting this- very interesting.

After watching it I would say that all the teachings in the video have been interpreted in varying ways by different groups and religions. To anyone who is eclectic or tolerant that isn't a bad thing, it's natural and is to be expected.

As for the part where Astarte speaks, many people would probably view it as fake. I don't, but please allow me to be a little controversial here: I believe this entity has a number of aspects and one of those aspects makes videos constantly with the Galactic Federation Of Light. Therefore he/she is no stranger to communicating with us.

Adding something to clarify: I don't follow the Galactic Federation and I don't believe in their teachings about different races of aliens etc. But I do think that angelic names are very important. This sect communicates with someone called Ashtar Sheran, and Ishtar and Sharan are both names of Astaroth.

For many years I've been regarding it as deceiving people not to say " well actually I'm Astaroth." But is it deceiving people, when it is a different aspect? You decide. Anyway, there is a marked similarity in appearance with the lady who appears in the above video and also a marked similarity in appearance with what I see if I visualize Astaroth (which I first did in 1983 before the present-day internet.)

Edited by SuccubusSherry, 28 April 2017 - 06:54 PM.

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#3 violetstar

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 10:21 PM

Thank you Succubus Sherry my pleasure.I put it up as a matter of interest but I do not see it as a serious working.Though I was really intrigued to hear of your visualisation of Astaroth being a marked similarity in appearance with the lady who appears in the video above.

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#4 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 10:12 AM

Well, the hair was a different colour- pale brown with some black in it, and I used to see white clawed hands which wouldn't look good on the Astarte personality.

The point I was trying to make was that even if Poke Runyon had done something wrong, in my opinion this being could still have appeared due to experience of being in You Tube Videos no less!- with another sect. The trouble is it's like electronic voice phenomena- everyone ignores it when a recording does emerge, and says 'fake.'
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#5 violetstar

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 03:44 PM

The process at play here is one of subjective reality.What is condemned as fake by others is a truth for the person experiencing it.The power of belief should be questioned with caution.

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#6 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:05 PM

View Postvioletstar, on 29 April 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

The process at play here is one of subjective reality.

In the video titled 'Watch A Real Ceremonial Magic Ritual With Real Magicians' you do see and hear a lady who is supposed to be Astarte, so this is objective reality. Maybe some more OC members can watch it and see what they think.
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#7 monsnoleedra

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:49 PM

I see the reflection of one of the women from the video wearing a headdress that is supposed to be the embodiment of the goddess Astarte as the reflected internal Spirit. But that was always the issue I saw with the reflection of the third eye or the eyes that do not see in the physical. You can't record those images.

It's a basic premise of mirror magics. The mirror reveals both the reverse reality but also the dark or hidden reality of the third eye or eyes that do not see in the physical. A clear mirror see's the reverse, a blackened mirror or surface shows the eyes that do not see the physical. You can photograph the clear mirror you can't photograph the black mirror's reflection for there truly isn't one.
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#8 wren

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 07:41 PM

It sort of goes without saying that it isn't a "serious" working, doesn't it? It's a movie, not a a raw recording of a ritual.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading or hearing that these rituals were done "dry" (no visualization/ energywork/ special sauce) so they could just focus on the "form" of their ritual work in front of the camera.

I could be wrong about that, but it does explain why some of it seems 'uninspired.'

#9 violetstar

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 08:38 PM

Its a documentary rather than a movie.SS,your experience is subjective simply because you saw a lady taking up the persona of Astarte which to you was 'real'.This cannot be objective reality as it is from a re-enactment type play.It is not 'serious' though will be seen as such by some.

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#10 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 06:11 AM

So it's actually an oracle. Ha, now you will think I would believe anything!

I recall one time in the past when a demon promised to appear on stage during a show. At one point during the show there was a particular spotlight effect where you could see a double shadow, and one of the shadows moved while the other one didn't. So I thought, "that must be it, then. " Everyone else completely ignored it, even though you would have thought that both shadows should dothe same thing. So, real or not? You wouldn't want everyone to run screaming from the theatre, after all.

It also makes me think of those chaos rituals I've talked about in the past where you are supposed to take a drug, and if you don't you can still see something by screwing up your eyes. Most people's verdict would be, "if you see something that is helpful to you, great, but just don't insist it was real to everyone else!"
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#11 wren

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 06:34 AM

'Movie' was a poor choice, but I think documentary is wrong as well. That, at least in my mind, implies that they are letting the juice out on camera, which I don't believe to be the case.

Not that I think they don't have the juice or the spirit contact. I believe they have both, just that it's not this film.

#12 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 05:27 PM

Just for the linguistics of it: the mirror scene is a dramatization and the rest of the piece is a promotional.

***

Some tidbits that may be of interest:

Runyon was making the claim that the Facial Reflection-Distortion technique (FRDT) is the missing ancient knowledge that made real evocation possible well before the video was made. It's the primary reason behind the notable shunning he received from the scholarly occult studies community , setting aside his generally cantankerous nature. The primary evidence for that claim, aside from his subjective feelings of success in using it: a drawing depicting the temple layout with a circle drawn inside the Triangle d'Art. While it's a reasonable inference that the circle represents a scrying device in there, it isn't evidence for the FRDT by any stretch, but he pressed it so vehemently as an undeniable fact.

Then there was the public dispute he prosecuted with Carl Wescheke/Donald Michael Kraig over the widespread publication of the (some would say suggestive) FRDT. Kraig took the technique from a text penned by Runyon's former associate, Nelson White, describeing the basic elements of it in Modern Magick's lesson on Goetic Evocation. Runyon was a daily conversant under multiple pseudonyms on the old Usenet group, alt.magick, in the late 1990's and into the 2000's, where it was discussed to death.As a side note, Kraig and a handful of other notable occult-oriented authors of the day were regulars, along with higher ups of the OTO, IOT, etc. Kraig's pseudonyms were better hidden than Runyon's, while many others used their real names or were overt about who they were. Nelson White posted there occasionally too, as a side note (he died sometime in the early 2000's). It was a sort of Golden Era of online occult discussion by my reckoning.

Tyagi and Catherine Yronwode (of the Lucky Mojo Curio Company) complied and indexed a large archive of usenet discussions, which they continue to curate. Here's are the key exchanges where Runyon lays out his case against Kraig and Wescheke/Llewellyn Publications: http://www.arcane-ar...r-scrying-1.php.

***

As a final note, I got the impression from Runyon that he'd rather lost interest in the evocative arts sometime after 2006 or so, and was focusing more on Pagan themes. I haven't followed up for years, but browsing the titles of his recent podcasts looks like a pretty mixed bag.
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#13 violetstar

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 09:13 PM

Thanks.A very interesting debate which obviously forms part of Occult history.

I too have noted that Runyon had moved toward neo-Paganism and last time Ilistened he was hosting a talk on the so called 1734 Tradition.Unfortunately what his guests said there seemed to be at odds with letters I had been shown concerning the leadership claimed to be handed down to them.

Interesting talks but he does ramble a bit!

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#14 Spida

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 02:19 PM

I didn't watch the video. Only because I don't want to. But as far as the Obj. and Sub. I get manifestations that can appear to any one of the five senses. This is objective but requires interpretation for the "why" and meaning, which forces a subjective inquiry. There are different degrees of subjective thinking, and I try to be as unbiased and rational as possible.

Adios

Edited by Spida, 04 May 2017 - 04:18 PM.


#15 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 01:36 PM

View PostSpida, on 04 May 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

I didn't watch the video. Only because I don't want to. But as far as the Obj. and Sub. I get manifestations that can appear to any one of the five senses. This is objective but requires interpretation for the "why" and meaning, which forces a subjective inquiry. There are different degrees of subjective thinking, and I try to be as unbiased and rational as possible.

What would make the experience objective is what people other than you experience, like 4 people in the room independently report the same phenomena. Is that what you mean?
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