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Where Would You Place The Hga?


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#1 violetstar

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:33 PM

Where would you place the HGA on the Tree of Life and is its existence temporal or persistent after physical death?

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#2 Spida

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 06:10 PM

That's a really good question Violet...

Since the HGA is the Highest evolved version of Self. I would place it close to the Divine Source. On the Tree of Life that would be across the Abyss. Initially residing in the Archangelic Realm. And then perhaps the HGA would have a choice of further incarnations, or reuniting with God.

I don't see why the Higher Self couldn't persist for the duration of the Universe if that's what it chose,e.g. being a Master on Earth. Perpetual incarnations and reabsorption back into the HGA it that's what's chosen.

If you put the Tree aside and look at it in actual terms. Then the Archangelic realm would be the process leading up to the creation(formation) of the first Galaxies and Solar systems. So they would be the oldest and closest to the Divine Source. Since the Universe continues to expand away from the Source.

Myself, I would certainly meditate on this for a few days to solidify what I already think on the matter, and also for further revelations.
But to comment on this at the moment, those are my thoughts. I may come back to this.

Cheers
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#3 violetstar

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 07:03 PM

Thanks for your thoughts Spida.If you see the HGA as the highest evolution of Self this equates it with the Higher Self an equation some will argue against.Crowley first equated it such(as the Genius)but later changed his view saying that 'the term 'Higher Self' implies a damnable heresy and a dangerous delusion'.

Ray Sherwin saw it as a censorship mechanism in the human brain and so its location across or guardian of the Abyss ties into both his and Crowleys thoughts.Some put it at Tiphareth initially seeing the epithets applied to that Sephiroth-Beauty and Splendour are commonly used to describe the presence of the HGA.

Its existence and possibility of persistence is a highly complex problem so I welcome any thoughts.An example is the relationship between the Soul and the HGA which inevitably leads into the question of the Soul after physical death and the mortality of its components.In a Qabalistic sense,Neshamah.Ruah,Nephesh and Chiah exposed to the Masekim after the putrefaction of its Zelem.

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#4 Imperial Arts

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:45 PM

View Postvioletstar, on 04 April 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

Ray Sherwin saw it as a censorship mechanism in the human brain and so its location across or guardian of the Abyss ties into both his and Crowleys thoughts.

The "psychic censor" of chaos magic lore is, according to PJ Carroll, a physical structure in the brain. I'm no expert on brains, but the one anatomical part that matches this (well enough) is called the RAS or reticular activating structure, which is a filter between the sensory organs and the processing centers.

In Crowley/Golden Dawn terms, this might be identified as Paroketh, or the "Veil" which separates normal sensory awareness from the that which can experience reality directly, as the Angel does, rather than the Angel itself.
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#5 Spida

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:51 PM

I will think about what you said at a later time. I just have a couple quick comments:

When the Universe was very young and new souls were being brought into existence. They would not have a HGA, having not gone through the evolutionary process, and ascending the hierarchy. They may have an Angel attached to them at birth, but that's different. So yeah, at the moment you can see how I look at this.

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#6 wren

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 01:02 AM

Isn't Tipharet the normal place to put the HGA?

Though twenty-million different interpretations of the HGA make any discussion of assignment difficult.

#7 Spida

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 03:36 AM

View Postwren, on 05 April 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

Isn't Tipharet the normal place to put the HGA?

Though twenty-million different interpretations of the HGA make any discussion of assignment difficult.

New soul, ascension process:

Earth(Malkuth)Entry

Ascend the Hierarchy to Union with God. Devolve, the Tree of Death. When creation is drawn back to the source. End of Universe. The light of God returning to source. Creation Drawn back. Evolve to Higher Self, Union with God. Complete the cycle. The Great Work. A Universal cycle. Those who fail will be left as Shells when the Light of God is taken back. Empty of Spirit, Light. An Infinite and Eternal process, with infinite and Eternal variations. But must always be good. That is God. Order, beauty. Forever battling Chaos and disorder.

Cheers
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#8 Spida

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 04:01 AM

You know you can't really talk about this sort of thing without involving paradoxes. Such as why would an all knowing God create things that it knew were damned. And what about the lost souls. It seems as though diversity is very important, and sacrifices are necessary. It seems as though anything that is possible to exist, will exist.

#9 Spida

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:36 AM

I have been equating the HGA with the Higher self for a while now. I either got it from Crowley, Fortune, or Blavatsky. I think, but it wouldn't surprise me if I concocted the notion myself.

If the HGA means something else to you, than I am not privy to that. And taken at face value if it is an Angel, then yes it could be placed in Tiphareth which is the center of the Kinddom of Yetzirah, Qabalistic world of Angels.

Good night Violet Star
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#10 violetstar

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:11 AM

View Postwren, on 05 April 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

Isn't Tipharet the normal place to put the HGA?

Though twenty-million different interpretations of the HGA make any discussion of assignment difficult.
It may be normal but I think its placement there may be incorrect and detracts from the superiority of the HGA who is not subject to the laws governing the Angelic world

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#11 violetstar

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 09:23 AM

View PostImperial Arts, on 04 April 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

The "psychic censor" of chaos magic lore is, according to PJ Carroll, a physical structure in the brain. I'm no expert on brains, but the one anatomical part that matches this (well enough) is called the RAS or reticular activating structure, which is a filter between the sensory organs and the processing centers.

In Crowley/Golden Dawn terms, this might be identified as Paroketh, or the "Veil" which separates normal sensory awareness from the that which can experience reality directly, as the Angel does, rather than the Angel itself.
Interesting.My own feeling is that the HGA is located within the Veil of Paroketh though there has in the past been some Rabbinic thought that the Veil is not a 'Veil' but an entity in itself.In other words the Veil is the HGA.

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#12 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 11:03 AM

I've always had a very singular view of the HGA, which I don't expect other people to agree with. There is a concept in Islam of a good angel and an evil angel being assigned to each person, and I feel that the good angel is the one that Christians call ' the guardian angel' and the evil one is the HGA. In that case the HGA would be placed at the top of the left column of the tree of life while the other guardian angel would be placed at the top of the right column.

I will freely admit that out of everything I've read on the subject I've picked out certain accounts that substantiate my theory rather than the many accounts which describe the HGA as the higher self. I have a few books in my collection such as 'Touched by Angels' by Eileen Elias Freeman and 'Meetings With Angels' by DR H C Moolenburgh and these describe encounters with a virtuous and celestial angel that has been assigned to the person at birth. That must have been what Spida meant when he said :
" They may have an Angel attached to them at birth, but that's different." I've several times met these beings myself: someone else's guardian, and to me they are not the same as the HGA and are something belonging to the pillar of mercy, as I indicated above.

‚ÄčAs for the actual HGA, the account I chose to give the most credence to was one of a girl who was following thelema, found her HGA and asked him what his name was. He told her and later on she found it in the bible as the name of a demon. So to me this is the angel at the top of the pillar of severity, and it often pretends to be the other one.

‚ÄčOn certain occasions I've come across beings who I believe are my two angels, and things didn't go very well between us so I cut off contact with both of them. I realize a lot of people will think that's ridiculous, especially if they believe I'm talking about my higher self or part of me. In the case of the HGA it was during the 1990's and I'd just finished doing something which I felt was equivalent to Liber Samekh because it lasted the same number of days, although it was a great deal less strict and I can't honestly remember now what it was. Anyway, at the end of doing this 'thing' a spirit made contact and spoke a line from a story that made me cry for days and days when I was aged about eleven. That upset me and I immediately cut off contact. The other angel.....I won't recount the incidents because they would sound rather melodramatic, but again things didn't work out.

In the most recent story my companion Ino wrote she has used my interpretation of these two angels, but this may possibly not mean she agrees with me, just that she garnered it from my mind.
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#13 violetstar

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 01:27 PM

In case anyone is interested here is an Occultist view on the evolution of the HGA since early times.

https://www.academia..._Guardian_Angel

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#14 Spida

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 03:35 PM

I did think it interesting one time when I saw this Angel Symbol on this Ritual Cloth, that was being associated with Daath(The Abyss). Maybe that was an association of the HGA with the TOL. Other than that, I don't recall any similar correspondence.

It keeps coming to mind so thought I would just spit it out.

Edit:

Daath(Knowledge)...

Knowledge and Conversation with the Holy Guardian Angel.

Order of Angels associated with Daath: Winged Serpents.

Edited by Spida, 05 April 2017 - 03:46 PM.


#15 Spida

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 04:11 PM

Daath is also the top point on the Hexagram. It is a threshold between the Angelic and Archangelic Worlds. Yetzirah and Beriah, respectively.

#16 Spida

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 05:33 PM

Yeah Violet,

Guardian of the Abyss makes sense. And this would be entirely different then the Higher Self.

I can see how this could get mixed up with a Guardian Angel; also different than Higher Self.

Maybe I like your version better.


Edit:

Holy Guardian Angel:

Holy Guardian of the Supernal Triad, The Holy Trinity.

Association: Daath(Knowledge)

Knowledge required to pass the HGA and cross the Abyss.

Edited by Spida, 05 April 2017 - 05:51 PM.


#17 violetstar

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 07:23 PM

View PostSpida, on 05 April 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

Yeah Violet,

Guardian of the Abyss makes sense. And this would be entirely different then the Higher Self.

I can see how this could get mixed up with a Guardian Angel; also different than Higher Self.

Maybe I like your version better.


Edit:

Holy Guardian Angel:

Holy Guardian of the Supernal Triad, The Holy Trinity.

Association: Daath(Knowledge)

Knowledge required to pass the HGA and cross the Abyss.
Sounds good.If we see Daath being formed from the reflection of Kether rebounding from Tiphareth what you say makes sense.If Daath is composed of those two aspects we then find sense in the meaning of the Upper and Lower Rooms or Chambers of Higher and Lower Knowledge.

When we encounter Paroketh we must either by-pass it or placate it to reach Tiphareth and converse with the HGA .Here is the 25th Path with its Dark Night of the Soul,the Trial to be endured in order to perceive the Dog Star or Daath glittering against the blackness of the Abyss.

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#18 Spida

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:39 PM

My current thoughts were that if you follow the lightening strike, then Daath would be emanated after Binah. But since Daath has no number and is an invisible Sephirah, than I assumed(recently)that Daath is just symbolic of a vast untraversable amount of space, ergo, the Abyss. Which apparently also has a Guardian.

Maybe this isn't right, I'm not sure.

P.S.
Now this Veil of Paroketh between Yesod and Tiphareth is new to me as well. So I just let these things continue to wash over me for now.

I see the 25th Path you are talking about. Samekh Hebrew letter association, and Temperance for the Major Arcana.

The 13th path looks interesting. From Tiphareth, passing through the Abyss to Kether. High priestess and Lunar association.
The High Priestess Symbolism seems like a clue, also inferring that Knowledge is required for this path. Just a guess.

Edited by Spida, 05 April 2017 - 09:27 PM.


#19 violetstar

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:36 PM

View PostSpida, on 05 April 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

My current thoughts were that if you follow the lightening strike, then Daath would be emanated after Binah. But since Daath has no number and is an invisible Sephirah, than I assumed(recently)that Daath is just symbolic of a vast untraversable amount of space, ergo, the Abyss. Which apparently also has a Guardian.

Maybe this isn't right, I'm not sure.

P.S.
Now this Veil of Paroketh between Yesod and Tiphareth is new to me as well. So I just let these things continue to wash over me for now.

I see the 25th Path you are talking about. Samekh Hebrew letter association, and Temperance for the Major Arcana.

The 13th path looks interesting. From Tiphareth, passing through the Abyss to Kether. High priestess and Lunar association.
The High Priestess Symbolism seems like a clue, also inferring that Knowledge is required for this path. Just a guess.
If we look at the word Da'at(Daath)we find Dallet Aleph Aleph Tayt..Dallet signifies resistance and resilience to challenge.The first Aleph has now realised its existence but as it technically has no existence and is timeless.it can exist only in time which being limited will eventually destroy it.To avoid this war which it created by energising Dallet,it takes refuge in the 'womb' of Tayt.Here in this container is stored information from Kether.

Knowledge,revealed by God who has tested us is manifested in Daath.Or 'God is incomprehensible but knowable through His manifestations'

In summary,Aleph signifies the spiritual life as opposed to Yod which expresses the temporal physical.Aleph has no existence without projection by Yod its old enemy.Once projected it is made manifest which in turn forces it into time which will destroy it.Hence the war-man in constant battle with himself.Knowledge once manifested is temporary without a timeless container to hold it eternally.This is Daath accessed through the HGA who here is the surrogate Yod activating Aleph without committing it to time.

Thats what an old witch I met in a graveyard told me anyway :)

Cheers

Edited by violetstar, 05 April 2017 - 10:37 PM.

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#20 Spida

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 03:11 PM

Quote by VioletStar:

"God is incomprehensible but knowable through His manifestations"

I totally agree with this, I have said similar things many times, and quite recently.

So back to the first question of the OP:

I'm voting for Daath as the association of the HGA based on my current knowledge.

Here is why:

There is a story about Man falling from grace with God, ergo, God creating the Abyss to separate itself from Man. So part of the great work would be traversing it to reunite with Divinity.

The Divine aspect of the TOL is the Supernal Triad which is obscured by the Abyss. Daath is the Abyss, the hidden Sephirah. Since it does not represent Cosmic Anabolism as do the other Sephirah, but a nearly impassable lacuna. I said nearly because it is physically impossible, but through Spiritual advancement it may eventually be traversed when certain knowledge has been obtained. Hence the association of knowledge to Daath, and also the High priestess symbolism for that path.

Tiphareth is the association for Adam Kadmon which is smack dab in the center of Yetzirah, He is the archetypal man, so I don't see the HGA being placed there as well.

I could be wrong, but I like this.

Adios
:)

Edited by Spida, 06 April 2017 - 03:14 PM.






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