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#21 violetstar

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:58 PM

Thank you for the clarification IA. I view this as consistent with the beliefs of Robert Boyle and Joseph Glanville which I overall subscribe to myself.
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#22 SilentSeeker

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:40 AM

Hola,

View PostImperial Arts, on 19 March 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

VS: On numerous occasions I have put to the spirits questions of how things work, and especially how to get things to work. One of the curiosities that continually appeared was the insistence that the standard models of magic are inadequate, and that a lot of what we think is happening in regard to magical events either isn't happening like we expect or doesn't at all. One of those things is the idea that sorcery of whatever sort occurs through some fluid or atmospheric media, or by some other subtle essence contained within the procedures and their ephemera. Instead I received counsel to avoid making speculations on that kind of thing, as a practical and philosophical dead-end, and turn my efforts to learning the mystic secrets of subjects like metallurgy and medicine, as well as other matters wherein they have been helpful.

Disregarding where I may personally stand on the issue, will pop in to note that nothing in this response denotes anything close to the scientific method as I understand it. It merely denotes you asking a group of entities and taking their answer as the truth. Ad populum is ad populum, whether the populum be humans, spirits or some combination of the two.

While you are more than granted the privilege to take on the opinion of those you trust, human or otherwise, in the fashioning of your world views--opinions I grant are likely to be more educated than my own/a great swath of occultists--will caution you that the moment you start characterizing an entire population of people as frauds based on such a limited exploration of the topic, you run the risk of speculating wildly past your means good sir.

That said, am granting you the benefit of the doubt that you abridged the account of your investigations in the interest of brevity and that they were more involved than you let on in the above.

Will also note, that the way you worded it leaves things open to a vast amount of interpretation and doesn't necessarily support the conclusion at which you've arrived on the matter. Though again, granting the benefit of the doubt it's a wording thing.

Those are my two cents as a neutral bystander.

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Why not be content with simply experiencing it?

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#23 Spida

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:25 PM

I would just like to emphasize a point with regard to post 17:

The premise being Incorporeal Reality Constructs Superimposed over our Four Dimensional(Physical) one.
Continuing with the "Shadow People" Phenomena as an example. Which as stated, is very well documented.

The important thing to emphasize here is the connection between the Micro and Macrocosms, or Internal Consciousness, and everything external to it. Now in Magick terms referred to as "Within, and Without". Now this scenario conforms to the Hermetic Axiom/Maxim "As Within, so Without". Which can refer to circumstances where what is Within, can influence what is Without, Hence the External manifestation of Shadows via the internal mechanisms of Consciousness i.e. modes thereof. Or the Aethyrs of the Microcosm.

I admit this is not an easy thing to do, and as I've said before results are sporadic, but results none the less.

Might as well mention my other belief that Schizophrenics may be more receptive to some of this phenomena, and similar but different phenomena. Which is to say they may be in many cases, sensitive, in lieu of delusional with regard to Incorporeal Realities.

Edited by Spida, 20 March 2017 - 01:28 PM.

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#24 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:26 PM

View PostImperial Arts, on 19 March 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

... and in either case the event happens seamlessly in the Grand Scheme, without any added invisible energy.

I certainly believe that it seems so to you. Recall that I started the thread to examine our express differences in how it feels to do the LBRP, and by extension, comparable ritual activity with practical aims. You've effectively stated at various times in these forums that you never feel anything happening during ritual performance, which tends to baffle me given the powerful sensations I feel when I do it. For me, ritual done right and proper seems to move me into a different reality, or at the very least, a different sense of reality. Using other jargon common to the OS community, that change of sense of reality might be termed an altered state. Setting aside the many ways in which people think about that term, the term is descriptive enough to express what I experience.

As an aside, I haven't directly discussed what role I think the sensations of magical energy might play in the general scheme of a magick practices, for the people who feel it the way I do at least. You haven't asked me about it either. Subsequently, you've spent most of your conversational effort arguing against ideas to which I don't personally subscribe. By way of friendly advice, you might want to learn to ask salient questions if you want to have real conversations with the people you're interacting with (as opposed to stereotyping and such). Short of that, you might at least notice available clues to what the individuals you're in conversations with actually think, like this one:

View PostR. Eugene Laughlin, on 19 March 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

...would be consistent with my general theory of how magick works: magick first and foremost changes the magician, and further changes in the world stem from those personal changes.

At any rate, an underlying reason for starting this thread is that I suspect practitioners' understandings of how magick works tends to be consistent with, or stems from, their magick-related perceptual experiences. Your mention of touch-sensitive clairvoyants in the conversation served as a handy example: to them the idea that people leave residual energy on objects they've handled is consistent with what they experience. If they didn't feel it that way, they wouldn't describe it that way. You, however, don't feel magical energy when you perform magick acts, so how could magical energy be a factor, for you?

Getting down to the heart of the matter, the variance in perceptual experience I've been highlighting in this thread doesn't seem, to me, to be a barrier to the successful practice of magick. At least, not nearly as much so as it seems to cause disagreement about what magick is and how it works within the OS community.

Given your conversational career on these forums, we can all assume that you're a spirit guy. So, here's my third attempt to get at the perceptual experiences that shape your particular attitude about what magick is and how it works. I'm not asking for the contents of your spirits communications. I do have further comments about the content that you've shared but I'll save those for some other time. Here and now I'm asking about the perceptual qualities of how that content is delivered from the spirits to you. What's that like? What do you experience when it happens? How does it feel?

Edited by R. Eugene Laughlin, 20 March 2017 - 01:30 PM.

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#25 oneiroplanes

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:30 PM

Quote

One of those things is the idea that sorcery of whatever sort occurs through some fluid or atmospheric media, or by some other subtle essence contained within the procedures and their ephemera.

I'm not entirely sure that's what the people here were suggesting, though I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how you're conceiving of "fluid or atmospheric media" or "subtle essence."

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#26 violetstar

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:36 PM

It is likely IA's line of thought would have received the same reception that Glanville,Hunt,More and Boyle encountered from the Royal Society in the seventeenth century.Virtually ignoring what was seen as critical need for scientific study of spirits and magic,the Society were more concerned about its reputation among the fashionable London intelligentsia who flatly rejected magic.However,what the Society as a whole avoided did not stop the private pursuit of investigating the phenomena by some of its Fellows.
IA's line of thought echoes the approach of those Fellows who did not find full answers within the Society and turned toward a more magical mode of thought in attempt to at least marry the two.
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#27 Shinichi

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:07 PM

View PostR. Eugene Laughlin, on 19 March 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

I agree with Violetstar that you seem to have some pretzel logic going on there, but I also think I see where it's coming from: mostly, you don't like the use of the word energy for this stuff. Here's how I see it. If someone puts their hand on something and has a subsequent clairvoyant experience about it (something that apparently some people can do), calling what they sensed residual energy reflects the way in which they understand how the world works. Here again, your attitude about it might be different if you felt it the way they do. On that count, I don't know how that one feels either because that doesn't happen for me, but here's where you and I seem to really differ: I presume that's due to a personal limitation on my part, not a misunderstanding on theirs.

Speaking as someone with experience in Psychometry, phrasing it as "residual energy" is somewhat applicable. It is also accurate to speak of information, or to say in either an animistic sense or a pure information sense that the memory of the object was experienced. Frankly, sometimes it depends on the individual experience. When I was 16 I bit into a steak and had a vivid flash of vision wherein I experienced the moment the cow died, along with everything it felt when it did. It was so horrifying I didn't eat meat for years, and it was definitely something stronger than abstract information. I felt the pain, and the fear. I've also held a rock or a piece of metal and determined its "occult properties" (or whatever term you wish to use for such things) without looking up any correspondence reference books, and that experience is far more abstract and removed from the overwhelming "memory" of an animals death.

View PostImperial Arts, on 19 March 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

VS: On numerous occasions I have put to the spirits questions of how things work, and especially how to get things to work. One of the curiosities that continually appeared was the insistence that the standard models of magic are inadequate, and that a lot of what we think is happening in regard to magical events either isn't happening like we expect or doesn't at all. One of those things is the idea that sorcery of whatever sort occurs through some fluid or atmospheric media, or by some other subtle essence contained within the procedures and their ephemera. Instead I received counsel to avoid making speculations on that kind of thing, as a practical and philosophical dead-end, and turn my efforts to learning the mystic secrets of subjects like metallurgy and medicine, as well as other matters wherein they have been helpful.

I've asked the spirits those same questions, and initially got those same answers. Then I asked a lot more questions because I'm a curious bastard and I'm not easily satisfied with the kind of answers the spirits sometimes give.

The answer that I eventually put together from the varied lectures I got from the spirits is that the "models" used in Modern and especially Post-Modern Magick are inadequate because they are incomplete. The practitioner who focuses on the Psychological model while ignoring all the others is utilizing only one part of what he or she is capable of, or what Magick as a whole is capable of, while the same can be said of the practitioners who focus on any one of the other models. Each model is only a partial representation of a larger metaphysical reality, and as such, each model is inadequate. They just aren't capable of representing the genuine nature of a larger reality, they are too narrowly focused on specific skills or ideas. As it was explained and shown to me, the reality of the Macrocosm is multi-layered (in more than one sense), and made even more complicated by the way everything within it influences everything else to varying degrees. You could put all of the contemporary models together and still be inadequate, and yet at the same time as all of this, some practitioners still get results to varying degrees with each of the models. Most occult practitioners have some natural talent or another, after all, and so different people align to different ideas and skills.

Another answer I got on this topic is that "the path has many branches precisely because there are so many different ones (people)." After a bit of contemplation I took this to mean that this sort of inadequacy, at the end of the day, is irrelevant to the overall purpose(s) of The Path. Every system or path or model will have some flaw or another when measured against various other systems and paths and models, because quite frankly, none of us lowly mortal practitioners really have the mind power to comprehend the whole thing. The mountain that all these paths rest upon is just too damn big. As such, all that's really important at the end of the day is that your system, or path, or model, is doing what it is supposed to for you and taking you where you wish to go. If it isn't, then it is inadequate for you, and that is something that is extremely relevant.



~:Shin:~

Edited by Shinichi, 20 March 2017 - 09:11 PM.

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#28 violetstar

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 11:41 PM

I can recommend the book by Michael Hunter a renowned expert on Robert Boyle and Joseph Glanville ,who is himself a member of The Royal Society.The book covers the witchcrafts and spirits that Boyle and Glanville were fascinated with plus their attempts to marry the occult and science,and their findings which they presented to The Royal Society.Its called Robert Boyle(1627-91),Scrupulosity and Science by Michael Hunter.
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#29 Spida

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 08:14 AM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 17 March 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

I have only ever felt a sense of inner peace and purity with the LBRP and the Middle Pillar- no energy sensations. Some people say they feel all kinds of things, like sensations to do with the four elements, but I don't.

I'm assuming female,
I wonder if this could be related, but perhaps not entirely dependent on the fact that in the TOL the Female aspect is Passive, and the Male Active. Referring to the Supernal male and female archetypes that head the pillars of Mercy and Severity.

Edited by Spida, 24 March 2017 - 08:16 AM.

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#30 Imperial Arts

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 03:40 PM

O: I'm not entirely sure that's what the people here were suggesting, though I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how you're conceiving of "fluid or atmospheric media" or "subtle essence." >>>>>

This conversation covers a large territory, so I am describing it in terms of two of what I consider to be the major divisions used by most of the people I know who profess some belief in magical energy.

The first is to conceptualize energy as something that flows through or fills a space. It can be raised, moved, absorbed, or otherwise altered by motions of the hands or body, by breathing and by visualizing, and in most respects answers to the qualities of water, air, or fire.

The "subtle essence" way of thinking about magical energy is the sort of viewpoint expressed in most of the older works, wherein a particular metal or stone has a type of energy that corresponds with that attributed to other things of similar virtue. Iron has "Mars energy," for example.

SS: Disregarding where I may personally stand on the issue, will pop in to note that nothing in this response denotes anything close to the scientific method as I understand it. It merely denotes you asking a group of entities and taking their answer as the truth. Ad populum is ad populum, whether the populum be humans, spirits or some combination of the two. >>>>

Around the time of Sept. 11, I began to consolidate what had been a diverse practical interest in magic into one core set of practices that could be approached in an experimental manner. Having noticed that the majority of self-constructed systems for such a purpose left major holes in the practical elements, which I also noticed tended to be filled with the leftovers of Theosophical literature, I chose instead something which had been well-established for a few hundred years and was unaffiliated with any groups that might consider it proprietary knowledge: the Lemegeton.

Had there been anyone in those days from which to learn, I might have signed up with them. I looked, and found the few claimants in that department sorely lacking, most especially those who had actually published anything on the subject. I put the system to what I considered a rigorous test, demanding that I satisfy all the particulars of the grimoire without removing or adding anything, and that I attempt to apply the work toward the same kind of purposes for which it was intended. Since part of the concept of the work is to make changes in the magician's own life, I decided to become my own guinea pig and see what the spirits could do for me personally, hoping to learn whether the system in its pure form could provide the sort of results claimed in the source documents.

I realize that there are numerous other possible sources from which this experimental work could have proceeded, and that the field of ceremonial magic and spirit evocation is much larger than the Lemegeton, and I was aware of those facts even back then. I chose the Lemegeton as something interesting, being internally complete and containing the full range of practical applications. In other words, the procedure was do-able, and let me attempt any of the multitude of things one might associate with magic. Over the course of several years, and through regular experiments, I came to have some idea of what can be done and how. My work is the first published account of the ceremonies of the Goetia (et al), and remains an important resource on demonology, but it was put together as a sidebar to the real work which has been a major factor in the direction of my life since it began.

To be brief, the process of inquiry, through which I have developed some of my ideas about magic in general, has not been a matter of "well, spirit X, tell me about so-and-so," and then just accepting that as fact, but rather those ideas are an end-product that summarizes a few of the things which I have picked up along the way.


SS: While you are more than granted the privilege to take on the opinion of those you trust, human or otherwise, in the fashioning of your world views--opinions I grant are likely to be more educated than my own/a great swath of occultists--will caution you that the moment you start characterizing an entire population of people as frauds based on such a limited exploration of the topic, you run the risk of speculating wildly past your means good sir. >>>>

Let's look at an idea like Chi. I choose this for the fact that we have all heard of it, and probably have some idea about the ways in which Chi parallels other systems of understanding magical energy. No common idea about other systems arranged along similar lines significantly expands beyond that of Chi, so while I don't intend to discuss Oriental mysticism in particular, it makes a decent focus for the topic. With the million pages written on Chi, I'm sure there are all kinds of complex things that could be said, but here I am only intending to use it as an example of one type of magical energy paradigm that represents most of the qualities shared by the other ones.

At its basic level, the idea of Chi is an attempt to provide a unified theory for anything that doesn't burn, break, or bump against your toe. Chi defines the way in which visitors appreciate your home décor (Feng Shui), it defines the way in which your body operates (Acupuncture), it makes the birds fly south in winter (Luopan), and it can make your enemies keel over in pain (Tai Chi). There are tons of ways in which Chi is understood, and all of them have the common denominators: Chi is more or less invisible, is usually intangible, and serves as an explanation for why something happens when we can't explain it. That last aspect of Chi made it extremely popular back when we had no clear idea how things like nerves, magnets, and spatial perception worked.

But is Chi - or any of its cognates like Prana, "astral energy," or The Force - actually real? Well, obviously there are hidden powers behind things like nerves and health, weather, compasses, the world is chock full of invisible forces. I'm not disputing those. I'm also not disputing that anyone might have a vision of an aura, or a sensation of their Chi. Those are real experiences, undoubtedly. So again, I am not arguing against Chi specifically because the idea of Chi goes well beyond the topic of this forum, and I am not arguing that anyone here is engaged in fraud or even self-deception. Rather I am arguing that those experiences are not evidence of any kind of magical energy.

Contrast, for example, the concept of Chi with that of Tao. The former is supposedly a kind of flowing substance or field, a vital component of life but also just a part of it. Tao, on the other hand, has all these properties (and more) and is not designated as a part of existence but rather as the underlying fundamental nature of existence itself. You are expected to raise and direct your Chi, to feel it and maybe even make it into shapes... nobody does that with Tao. Unlike Chi, Tao is not an "energy," it is something on an altogether different level and requires a different lens in order to understand it.

REL: Here and now I'm asking about the perceptual qualities of how that content is delivered from the spirits to you. What's that like? What do you experience when it happens? How does it feel? >>> >>

My interaction with the spirits has been, overall, not dissimilar to interacting with people, each with a distinct manner and presentation. They speak aloud, they appear as real beings, vivid and usually very strange. Some created other effects, like ringing bells in the hallway, or inducing vomiting in my assistant, but many did not. Even these apparitions I tend to regard as outward signs of an interior process of communication.

Considering that the Lemegeton catalogue is pieced together from Bible lore and related materials, and is therefore representative of a human-designed system rather than some universal reality, I do not place stock in "the spirit model" as the end-all-be-all of magical theory. I certainly don't believe that those 72 spirits have the sort of distinct existence that you and I possess, although I am only speculating on that. In short, it looks real, seems real, and appears to have some kind of internal coherence, but I'm not promoting that version of things as the "true way of things" or even as correct at all. The "spirit model" works great for explaining spirits, but I'm not prepared to subscribe to it as some kind of universal truth.

Sensations of something, whether to see it or hear it, or even to touch it, is no indication that the thing you are sensing is "real" in the same way that your shoes are real. I'm probably not far off when I suggest that most people here are familiar with drug experiences, all sorts of visions and sensations, but I doubt any of us are prepared to put these in the same box as an experience of going to breakfast. You can take LSD, drag your hand through the air and watch the astral light pouring out from behind the rended Veil, but such an experience makes a flimsy foundation for declaring the existence of that light, especially when those perceptual effects can be reliably attributed to the drug.

Edited by Imperial Arts, 26 March 2017 - 03:41 PM.

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#31 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 06:36 PM

View PostImperial Arts, on 26 March 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

My interaction with the spirits has been, overall, not dissimilar to interacting with people, each with a distinct manner and presentation. They speak aloud, they appear as real beings, vivid and usually very strange. Some created other effects, like ringing bells in the hallway, or inducing vomiting in my assistant, but many did not. Even these apparitions I tend to regard as outward signs of an interior process of communication.

How do you regard claims of spirit communications from other people that don't include anything like that? For example, it's not uncommon for people to report that the communications they get from spirits are difficult to distinguish from their own internal voice at first, but that they learn to distinguish it with practice and experience. What's your take on that sort of thing?

View PostImperial Arts, on 26 March 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sensations of something, whether to see it or hear it, or even to touch it, is no indication that the thing you are sensing is "real" in the same way that your shoes are real.

It's reasonable to assume that, if there are interactive spirits at all that they're of a different orders of being than shoes, but you do assume that the information you get comes from a real source. To what degree, would you say, your sense of realness of the source comes from the perceptual experience of communication and from the effects you attribute to the communication? After the fact?
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#32 Imperial Arts

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 08:12 PM

REL: How do you regard claims of spirit communications from other people that don't include anything like that?

Spirit interaction takes many forms. Millions of people attribute all sorts of things to spirits, blessings of saints and angels or the influence of demons, and I think it would be fair to say that at least some of that is genuine, and that the same rule applies to all forms of divination whether in mirrors or smoke or however you intend to communicate with them. That said, getting an answer doesn't make it correct, and without knowledge or power gained beyond the communication, I see little point in calling up spirits to rewrite the Zohar.



REL: It's reasonable to assume that, if there are interactive spirits at all that they're of a different orders of being than shoes, but you do assume that the information you get comes from a real source. To what degree, would you say, your sense of realness of the source comes from the perceptual experience of communication and from the effects you attribute to the communication? After the fact?

Have you ever asked your cat if it was a sentient creature? Have you ever had a deer ask you for help with a tick? Sometimes animals will interact with people in ways that shows how they have an individual consciousness that can meet with yours directly at some level. Since we can interact with a few different kinds of animals very easily, and many more with only a little patience, it is reasonable to assume that there are other forms of sentience and that it can vary in its qualities and how that sentience is communicated to us.
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#33 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 12:05 PM

View PostImperial Arts, on 26 March 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:


REL: It's reasonable to assume that, if there are interactive spirits at all that they're of a different orders of being than shoes, but you do assume that the information you get comes from a real source. To what degree, would you say, your sense of realness of the source comes from the perceptual experience of communication and from the effects you attribute to the communication? After the fact?

Have you ever asked your cat if it was a sentient creature? Have you ever had a deer ask you for help with a tick? Sometimes animals will interact with people in ways that shows how they have an individual consciousness that can meet with yours directly at some level. Since we can interact with a few different kinds of animals very easily, and many more with only a little patience, it is reasonable to assume that there are other forms of sentience and that it can vary in its qualities and how that sentience is communicated to us.

You didn't answer the question. I'm still interested, if you will.
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#34 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 02:49 PM

View PostSpida, on 24 March 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

I'm assuming female,
I wonder if this could be related, but perhaps not entirely dependent on the fact that in the TOL the Female aspect is Passive, and the Male Active. Referring to the Supernal male and female archetypes that head the pillars of Mercy and Severity.

I've been meaning to reply to Spida. Female is passive and male is active in a several systems- yin and yang comes to mind the most, and I would say that this is based on something real, (even though feminists might not like it). But I would question whether or not it affects reactions to the middle pillar exercise in the way you seem to be implying. The lady I mentioned earlier, who can feel chaos energies and finds them particularly vibrant, would very likely also feel some energies while doing this ritual. It isn't whether she is female that affects it but whether she is psychic.

I'm always proclaiming loudly that I've only got one psychic sense and people are so fortunate who have several of them. You can have clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience which relates to sensing, and some people even include further senses for tasting, smelling and touching astral phenomena. These psychic senses are essential for feeling magical energy and knowing what it's like- whether it really is like lightning coming out of the fingers the way it is in cartoons, or whether it's something else entirely. It doesn't help when you get fraudsters, like people selling aura glasses who say "it won't work straight away." I believe in always telling the truth about what you can sense, and what you can't sense, and that is the way forward for finding out how magical energy feels to people because you pick out the accounts of those who have the natural gifts and are able to describe them accurately.

As for IA and his sense of 'realness of the source' when he talks to spirits... I've been reading about evocation a lot recently and some people say that before you can do it you have to develop your astral senses, or psychic senses, the two terms being used to mean the same thing. Others say that if you do what IA did and follow the original instructions exactly to the letter this somehow makes the astral senses work and enables seeing and hearing spirits. Presumably it would also enable feeling what power they have and feeling what power the ritual has which would come under magical energy. so for a proper study of the subject it is only necessary to induce these people to describe what they are experiencing as clearly as possible.

#35 Spida

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 04:22 PM

@Succubus Sherry

I was only generally speaking. Every person is unique. It does make sense maybe that a female could Invoke some of the energies associated with Chockmah the Supernal male archetype to adjust the inner spectrum and then try the Middle Pillar again.

On the Evocation, a lot of the energies brought into your environment are quite tenuous, and you may be oblivious to them. Thinking your work is not producing any results. Other times you may feel a strong presence, in my case this has been followed by sleep paralysis, and OBEs.

You can also see signs of successful Evocations by various things around your house that use electricity, lights sources et cetera being affected. The Spirits may also get your attention by causing you to see repeated number sequences constantly. In my case this is 11, it was 555 for a while also.

Maybe also Chesed, Gedula(the Son(Jupiter)). It's just theoretical, I never tried any of this specifically. Nor would I need to. :)

Cheers

Edited by Spida, 28 March 2017 - 04:31 PM.

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#36 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 04:41 PM

View PostSpida, on 28 March 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:


On the Evocation, a lot of the energies brought into your environment are quite tenuous, and you may be oblivious to them. Thinking your work is not producing any results. Other times you may feel a strong presence, in my case this has been followed by sleep paralysis, and OBEs.


This is in cases where the energy comes from another entity. I think in many cases when people speak of magical energy they mean their own energy. for example, supposing you have a magician who has been practising for many years and he believes he has reached the stage at which any time he feels like a cup of coffee he can make one appear- not out of thin air of course, but events will turn out so that some coffee becomes available. (And I am thinking of one particular magician who said that.)

Seeing magical energy in this case would mean seeing the rippling whatever-it-is that happened when he cast his spell for the coffee. I believe that he can see and feel it because I choose to trust the accounts of certain people. I can't see or feel it myself. I believe that some of the better psychics on this board would see or feel it and would maybe whisper to him, "man, you're using it for coffee!" and have a laugh. These people are inhabiting a different world, but it's a world that theoretically all of us could reach. I believe this thread is asking how does the rippling whatever-it-is look or feel? If not, that should be the proper question.

#37 Spida

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 11:51 PM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 28 March 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

I believe this thread is asking how does the rippling whatever-it-is look or feel?

Not only the Ocean has waves, but so do the other three elements in various analogs.

If you take a look at the Plane of Forces which is superimposed on the Material Plane. You have various waves of Energy consisting of different wavelengths and amplitudes. Now supposing all these Energetic waveforms were made visible by changing them to the color green. Then you would see waves of green everywhere, although the ultra high frequencies would probably appear linear. This energy is everywhere. You can move a radio just about anywhere and receive electromagnetic energy, i.e. a signal.

The brain is an electric device and may be capable of interacting with this Plane of Forces. The Magician would create an altered state of consciousness that would cause perhaps millions of neurons to fire simultaneously, creating electric and magnetic fields that would radiate Energy into the Aether. These are waves, again in the plane of forces. This is the medium. The Waves can transmit information in the same way that microwaves transmit information. Although the magicians energy transmission would be imprinted with intent.

The feelings associated with this can be quite ineffable. Do you know what it's like to feel like God? Altered states produce ineffable feelings, and I also believe release tremendous amounts of energy at times into the Plane of Energy.

I have to get ready for a Ritual,
Cheers
:)

Edited by Spida, 28 March 2017 - 11:53 PM.

Since no thing defines it's own creation. It cannot be held responsible for it's nature; then there are choices.

#38 Mutate

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:59 PM

I started doing yoga, tai chi and chakra mediation a couple of years ago, and it awakened some kind of burning tingle along the right of my back. Ever since then, whenever I'm very "present" or feel intense, or have a decision to make, it tingles.

A couple of months ago I started doing this thing where I kept breathing up energy from the earth as I was walking along anywhere, then letting in settle around my body. I can't even remember where I got the idea, it just seemed like instinct. After a while I got bored and stopped this - the first night after stopping, the next morning there was a rash, or rather a real lumpy burn, on my lower back.





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