Jump to content


- - - - -

The Flaw With Eastern Religions.


29 replies to this topic

#1 ChaosTech

    Venerable Member

  • Gold Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,209 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:35 AM

So I had a neat insight today. Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, etc, are flawed. The infinite can cease and absorb all of reality within it in a moment. All we have to do is be good. And I'm an ascentionist, so I believe we must conquer are bodily limits, and we shall live forever, if we trust in the all good infinite and light, and act acordingly. Interesting that Jesus said, he who believes in me will when he dies have everlasting life, and he who acts like me, shall never die. Now I know Jesus died, then rose from the dead, but look it up. And what did Jesus do? Trusted God, identified his true nature with him, and performed miracles. :). I believe reality will be absorbed into the infinite one day, but that's beyond our control, up to our infinite root, not our souls or egos.
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#2 Son of the Wave

    Killer of Buddha

  • Ex-mods
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,347 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 05:04 AM

So what exactly is the flaw? All you seem to have done here is state that these eastern systems are flawed followed by some rambling that quickly turns into preaching the good word of our Lord and Savior. I don't quite follow your reasoning. All we have to do is be good? Give us some examples of what you mean by being good.

#3 ChaosTech

    Venerable Member

  • Gold Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,209 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 08:34 AM

Lol, sorry I was just using Jesus as an example for a miracle man that ascended. I mean we should do the great work of uplifting creation, within, mainly, help and be kind to others, for we are all interconnected, and not worry about transcendence. It happens when the cosmos ends.
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#4 ChaosTech

    Venerable Member

  • Gold Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,209 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 08:36 AM

I'm an expert at attempting transcendence, and I've just learned it isn't our choice, it's deep rooted into the universal spirit we all are at the core.
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#5 Sandalphon

    Venerable Member

  • Old Timers
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,176 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:09 PM

ChaosTech : "I'm an expert at attempting transcendence..."

Maybe you could try one of the meditation techniques used by many Eastern Religions. They seem to have a successful track record.

#6 The Geometer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 201 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:19 PM

I'm an expert at attempting to fly.

CT, friend, you posit, again, no sufficient reasoning oh god theres a giant bee in my room oh god oh god oh god oh god

#7 wren

    Venerable Member

  • Moderators
  • 1,265 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 06:05 PM

Hey geometer, 'posit' sounds super awkward there. Hope that bee didn't get ya.

#8 ChaosTech

    Venerable Member

  • Gold Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,209 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 07:06 PM

I'm just trying to warn don't become obsessed with personal salvation. If you don't agree that's fine. I agree with eastern Faith's in everything except the personal salvation thing. You can really destroy yourself working against your higher will. At that I have experience.
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#9 SilentSeeker

    Senior Member

  • Old Timers
  • 265 posts

Posted 21 May 2016 - 11:50 PM

Greetings,

Though it's quite apparent you mean well CT buddy, it should be mentioned that you may not be working with an accurate picture of 'Eastern Religions*.' A generalized picture of Eastern spirituality and some of its prevalent notions may prove useful in some contexts, but not sure this is one of them. For example, a look into Mahayana Buddhism may reveal that what you describe here:

View PostChaosTech, on 21 May 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

I mean we should do the great work of uplifting creation, within, mainly, help and be kind to others, for we are all interconnected, and not worry about transcendence. It happens when the cosmos ends.

...is, in some respects, a cursory description of the Bodhisattva aspiration which, from my understanding, is the archetype for that vehicle of Buddhism (and that says nothing of Vajrayana which has it's own archetype of the ideal practitioner, which--from my *limited* really isn't about Transcendence in the sense it seems you use it as the belief there ultimately is that there is nowhere to Transcend/Ascend to).

What you seem to be criticizing is actually, as far as I can tell (perhaps incorrectly), a vague conception of the Theraveda/Hinayana school which, by there even being such a distinction, demonstrates--among other things--that the 'flaw' you're pointing out has 1) already been addressed (though whether it has well/satisfactorily enough is a different story) and 2) can't at all be a fair categorization of all 'Eastern Religions' as it's not even a fair categorization of Buddhism--even the Hinayana path, the facsimile of which seems to be your conception of 'Eastern Religions' as a whole.

Also, and this point I'm about to make may be guilty of the same error of conception regarding Eastern Religions of which I just finished ascribing to yours--and if so, someone please correct me--but fairly sure that, depending on whom you were talking to and what particular 'Eastern Path' they follow, this:

View PostChaosTech, on 21 May 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

You can really destroy yourself working against your higher will. At that I have experience.

on a deeper level of the teachings, may not be taken as straightforwardly as we take for granted in our own Western paradigm. Again, depending on the tradition and what aspect/level of teachings, their definition of 'I' and the existence of it, may preclude the possibility of what you describe--even the way it's framed--being seen as a possible occurrence except as the result of a deluded view.

Long story short: the language you use is vague and the concepts you're working with seem unfairly reductionist.

Pointing this all out simply to provide a bit of context around some of the things you're discussing. Hope it passed through your feathers without rankling any.

Cheers and Be Well

Full disclosure: Mine can't be said to be much better by any stretch of the imagination

Edited by SilentSeeker, 21 May 2016 - 11:54 PM.

“The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”
―Zhuangzi


The Tao gives rise to all forms, yet it has no form of its own.

If you attempt to fix a picture to it in your mind, you will lose it.

This is like pinning a butterfly: the husk is captured, but the flying is lost.

Why not be content with simply experiencing it?

--Attributed to Lao-tzu


#10 Monkey Sage

    Runnerswift

  • Moderators
  • 1,494 posts

Posted 22 May 2016 - 05:21 PM

What, exactly, might these flaws me, ChaosTech?

Posted Image


#11 Son of the Wave

    Killer of Buddha

  • Ex-mods
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,347 posts

Posted 22 May 2016 - 06:08 PM

View Postsen, on 22 May 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

What, exactly, might these flaws me, ChaosTech?
This is what I'm still interested in hearing as well.

#12 ChaosTech

    Venerable Member

  • Gold Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,209 posts

Posted 22 May 2016 - 11:24 PM

Trying to attain Nirvana absolutely basically. You can realize it, but you can't be it, it's beyond "your," will.
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#13 Son of the Wave

    Killer of Buddha

  • Ex-mods
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,347 posts

Posted 23 May 2016 - 12:11 AM

And why is that a flaw for you Tech?

#14 ChaosTech

    Venerable Member

  • Gold Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,209 posts

Posted 23 May 2016 - 12:57 AM

Oh I just get really obsessed with being perfect. Had some really nightmare experiences trying to "undo," myself. I guess I just want to warn if taken wrong, some f these ideas can be horrible. :(
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#15 Imperial Arts

    Senior Member

  • Old Timers
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,555 posts
  • LocationBigfoot's Neighbor

Posted 23 May 2016 - 01:21 AM

What are the flaws in your own personal religious views, ChaosTech?
https://www.lulu.com...ibutorId=588142

http://www.lulu.com/...t-22253942.html

"Only the madman is absolutely sure." - Wilson & Shea, Illuminatus!

#16 The Geometer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 201 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 23 May 2016 - 02:17 AM

That's a loaded question. If he could see any flaw, obviously, you can intellectualize that phlaw away.

#17 ChaosTech

    Venerable Member

  • Gold Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,209 posts

Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:04 AM

The quest for power and knowledge. Double edged sword.
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#18 Monkey Sage

    Runnerswift

  • Moderators
  • 1,494 posts

Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:08 AM

I agree that the quest to "attain" Nirvana is mistaken. You can't "attain" Buddhahood since everyone already has it. It's a mistake to chase after it.

Posted Image


#19 jes

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 560 posts

Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:58 AM

View PostChaosTech, on 23 May 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Oh I just get really obsessed with being perfect. Had some really nightmare experiences trying to "undo," myself. I guess I just want to warn if taken wrong, some f these ideas can be horrible. :(

Trying to negate yourself can be counterproductive when you straight up deny your own existence. If you're trying to tame desire and such.
It doesn't matter what they say, in the jealous games people play - The Go-Gos

For my will is as strong as yours, and my kingdom is as great.... you have no power over me.

#20 Sandalphon

    Venerable Member

  • Old Timers
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,176 posts

Posted 23 May 2016 - 11:44 AM

Try reading "Walden" by Thoreau for good old American trancendentalism. Nothing flawed or Eastern or even religious about it.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users