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This Meet The Criteria For Success


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#1 SilentSeeker

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 09:20 PM

^...question mark

Greetings All,

So this is going into the Chaos Board as, from what I understand, Chaos Magic has little patience for excuses and is all about Results with a capital 'R.' Am putting this out there in deference to you more experienced lot, hoping you could help me classify the outcome of a fairly recent spell, which just happened to be a sigil.

Did a sigil back in Jan: designed it, charged it and stuck it in my wallet. It was to meet a certain kind of person. However, the intention was set to meet the person THAT evening. While aware that sigils typically don't do 'instant results omg' type manifestation, I still opted to see. Needless to say, I didn't meet the intended kind of person...until recently..

So, even though a strict, literal interpretation would deem the intention: of 'I want a meet such and such type of person tonight' a failure. I'm curious as to whether that should be the proper lens through which to view the outcome. While I could easily put this one in the 'W' column, I'd rather make as sober an assessment as possible, which relative inexperience precludes:' and so I put it all to you fine folks for your opinions--that is of course if you'd be so kind to offer them. Thanks in advance to all whom deign to do so.

Cheers and Be Well

Edited by SilentSeeker, 26 February 2016 - 09:23 PM.

“The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”
―Zhuangzi


The Tao gives rise to all forms, yet it has no form of its own.

If you attempt to fix a picture to it in your mind, you will lose it.

This is like pinning a butterfly: the husk is captured, but the flying is lost.

Why not be content with simply experiencing it?

--Attributed to Lao-tzu


#2 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 09:53 PM

View PostSilentSeeker, on 26 February 2016 - 09:20 PM, said:


So, even though a strict, literal interpretation would deem the intention: of 'I want a meet such and such type of person tonight' a failure. I'm curious as to whether that should be the proper lens through which to view the outcome.

Let the working be a failure and enjoy the person.

Keep working.
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#3 Whispers

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 09:56 PM

^What he said

#4 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 02:43 AM

If you don't mind sharing, how was the original intent worded before you made a sigil out of it?

Giving time limits on such spells is usually not the best method of working as it can sabotage the working or throw it for a loop. Say I give a sigilized desire one week's time to manifest. It will probably happen some time after the expiration and probably even on the eighth day just to demonstrate the semi-spiteful humor of the subconscious. I find it better to do such things and allow them to happen when they have grown and are ripe to happen. In your case it seems like that is what happened. Your results came when the time was right for it. Some may not like to hear it but desired results only happen if they are in alignment with one's will.

#5 ChaosTech

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 03:09 AM

I've had similar experiences. Magick is mysterious, no matter how us mages want to control, analyze and make into a science, the art.


For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

#6 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 02:54 PM

Since I've been studying chaos magic I've found that sigils sometimes do manifest after a time interval (unless it's a coincidence of course!)
I came across one mage who wrote, when making a comparison, "like a forgotten sigil which reappears before your eyes when it manifests..." Well, if he genuinely does experience that he must be doing something right. That would be a definitive way of telling that what is happening is connected with the original sigil.
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#7 SilentSeeker

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 08:15 PM

Hola,

Thank you all for the answers. Despite their contrasting viewpoints, they all were very helpful in my attempts to interpret this. You have my gratitude.

View PostR. Eugene Laughlin, on 26 February 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

Let the working be a failure and enjoy the person.

Keep working.

View PostWhispers, on 26 February 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

^What he said

While I have my own reasons for finding this view helpful, not quite sure it's for the reasons the two of you might of intended so I'm going to ask you to expand upon the impetus behind your particular view--and this shouldn't need to be said but in case it does, this centers around the 'Let the working be a failure' part of the response and not the 'Keep Working.' The use of the word 'Let' struck me as being very interesting and as evidence for a perspective that perhaps requires more context than what was initially supplied. Fingers crossed that you'll feel compelled to provide it as it seems a coin flip as to whether it will come...

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 27 February 2016 - 02:43 AM, said:

If you don't mind sharing, how was the original intent worded before you made a sigil out of it?

'It is my will to meet a [blah blah type of person*] tonight'

As for the rest of your reply NKB, it seems to mesh well with what happened here. Full disclosure, part of the rationale behind the op was to see if putting an unreasonable time constraint would invalidate things completely in the event it didn't meet the 'deadline.' Both yours and Sherry's reply, even if I were to adopt REL and Whispers' suggestion, answers that question so I'm grateful to you both for that much--ditto CT.

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 27 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

I came across one mage who wrote, when making a comparison, "like a forgotten sigil which reappears before your eyes when it manifests..."

This particularly resonated. Danke Sherry.

Tanks 'gen y'all.

Cheers and Be Well

*If that censorship strikes you as boring/disappointing then let's, for fun say that it was to meet an...oh I don't know...a master in the art of tasty flapjack preparation.

Edited by SilentSeeker, 01 March 2016 - 08:30 PM.

“The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”
―Zhuangzi


The Tao gives rise to all forms, yet it has no form of its own.

If you attempt to fix a picture to it in your mind, you will lose it.

This is like pinning a butterfly: the husk is captured, but the flying is lost.

Why not be content with simply experiencing it?

--Attributed to Lao-tzu


#8 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 08:57 PM

View PostSilentSeeker, on 01 March 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

The use of the word 'Let' struck me as being very interesting and as evidence for a perspective that perhaps requires more context than what was initially supplied. Fingers crossed that you'll feel compelled to provide it as it seems a coin flip as to whether it will come...

You could let the working be a success. For myself, that can lead to a slippery slope that lets everything one does be successful, and that can rob one of the impetus to improve technique.

It seems harmless to attribute life events to the workings you've done when and whenever they seem to match up. It's a fairly small step from there [to] a, I didn't get what I asked for but I got what I needed way of thinking. At that point, you're your magick career is over. I figure it's about what would happen to our sex lives if we could perform oral sex on ourselves.

There is something to refining the goals you go for, but once the goals are set, let them stand for the outcome assessment, no matter what happens.

Edited by R. Eugene Laughlin, 02 March 2016 - 12:30 AM.

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#9 The Geometer

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:09 PM

There is no success, only failure. I purposely make sigils to fail.

"It is my will that I will fly over the sun"

that night, I dreamt that I had gone somewhere in the Antares, and flew over a star, much bigger than the sun.
That sigil, I still consider a failure. I wanted to fly over the SUN not some random star in the fucking Antares what the hell stupid magick.

#10 voidgazing

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:23 PM

I'll be much more impressed if you successfully sigilize to stop flying over the sun.
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#11 The Geometer

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 01:13 AM

Wouldn't it be impressive if I stopped sigilizing flying over the sun succesfully?

#12 SilentSeeker

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 03:37 AM

Greetings,

View PostR. Eugene Laughlin, on 01 March 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

You could let the working be a success. For myself, that can lead to a slippery slope that lets everything one does be successful, and that can rob one of the impetus to improve technique.

It seems harmless to attribute life events to the workings you've done when and whenever they seem to match up. It's a fairly small step from there [to] a, I didn't get what I asked for but I got what I needed way of thinking. At that point, you're your magick career is over. I figure it's about what would happen to our sex lives if we could perform oral sex on ourselves.

There is something to refining the goals you go for, but once the goals are set, let them stand for the outcome assessment, no matter what happens.

Sorry REL, dropped this thread without ever 1) thanking you for the advice or 2) giving more clarification as to the rationale behind the original question.

Generally, I do try to keep what you've outlined here about self-honesty as the rule of thumb and appreciate the sound reasoning behind it (such was one of the chief impulses that initially led me to start the thread at all). The reason though I'd proffered this up for comment is because I was trying to learn more about sigils in general--not because I wanted to chalk something up to magick haphazardly. From what I'd read elsewhere, sigls typically take about 2 weeks to manifest. So what I was trying to ascertain by the question essentially was if I include a time restraint <14 days (in this case, the very evening of the casting) and it didn't happen, if the desire's later manifestation would still fall within the purview of success.

Just wanted to provide that clarification.

View PostThe Geometer, on 26 May 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

There is no success, only failure. I purposely make sigils to fail.

"It is my will that I will fly over the sun"

that night, I dreamt that I had gone somewhere in the Antares, and flew over a star, much bigger than the sun.
That sigil, I still consider a failure. I wanted to fly over the SUN not some random star in the fucking Antares what the hell stupid magick.

Speaking of sigils, whatever happened to the driving test sigil that initially brought you here: did you ever get your license?

Cheers and Be Well

Edited by SilentSeeker, 27 May 2016 - 03:40 AM.

“The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”
―Zhuangzi


The Tao gives rise to all forms, yet it has no form of its own.

If you attempt to fix a picture to it in your mind, you will lose it.

This is like pinning a butterfly: the husk is captured, but the flying is lost.

Why not be content with simply experiencing it?

--Attributed to Lao-tzu


#13 The Geometer

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 04:10 PM

I did get my license, perhaps it was because of the sigil, it's hard to say, because I did fail the test immediately after casting the sigil, and it was about 2 months later that I finally got it.
I know I usually don't make any serious contributions to topics, but I do have one or two experiences that acted (to me) as some sorts of cautionary tales (and btw, if anyone likes '80s thrash metal, check out "Cautionary Tale" by Sabbat).
This might come as a surprise to all or almost all of you but despite my hilarious sense of humour and my stunning good looks I am still single, so one day, after I had succesfully cast a sigil to find a dollar on the ground, I thought, hey, fuck tinder that shit is stupid, I'm going to cast a spell to net me a girl. So I did that. Well, okay, maybe the sigil wasn't that precise. It was more like, I met this girl already, and I thought, I want to get to know her better. That was more or less the exact wording of it. So this what happened, I never saw that girl again, but my buddy who had introduced me to her, told me "she is fucked". Okay, I thought, that's sort of getting to know her better in some sense, not what I was exactly hoping for, but then the weird thing was that I felt intense pangs of what can only be described as loneliness (despite the fact that I've been single for quite some time and never having felt that way). I attribute this mostly to the psychological energy I had put into the sigil only to have it 'misfire' in such a way. That was one, then, a little while after (having cast other, insignificant, and mostly experimental to see if the stuff actually worked or if I had just had good luck that one day) i cast another sigil, hoping to meet some woman who was motherly, good looking and willing to fuck. Not exact wording of the sigil but close (I always erase the words, it helps me forget, and it seems to work) anyway, I have met a couple of women who fit that criteria, but, me, despite my stunning sense of humour and my hilarious good looks, always somehow fuck it up by saying the wrong thing at the right time, or the right thing at the wrong time, and then I always get this backlash type effect from it, where I feel negative emotions for a day or two afterwards.

So, I basically decided from that last time, that I will only ever use sigils that would affect me and nobody else.





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