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Tulpas As Friends


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#81 Vulpecula

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 06:25 AM

View PostSimon.Magus, on 25 March 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

The idea of someome forcing a tulpa to fulfill all of his or her carnal desires disgusts me. If it's an autonomous being, it's abuse; if it's a part of you, it's self-abuse.

They are sentient as well. (I have done tests and have decent neurological test equipment)
Even if you don't believe they are outside of the mind, abusing a sentient entity... that's just unconscionable.

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 25 March 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Thank you very much Vulpecula for quoting that passage about the yidam up on post 74. That clarifies things even more for me. Both Buddhists and Hindus frequently carry out this practice of creating the tutelary Deity or Ishta- Deva. I started off my path in the eastern system and did this with Krishna, and I met others who had recently returned from India and were doing exactly the same. It set a pattern and I carried on doing this with everything else I investigated, which is why I think I'm an obsessive I suppose. The majority of people are loyal to one path for a longer time and because they are still in the eastern system you can see their roots- yidam or ishta-Deva, or whatever it may be they use.


Regarding the other quotation :'Are you ready for the sexual experience of a lifetime?'

etc.


People sometimes get offended if they are asked about sex and their tulpa. but there's often something sexual in it. Again going back to my own experience,Krishna mentioned his aspect as a teacher of tantra and tried to teach me a tantric technique which is supposed to use only the upper half of the body, and to evolve the heart chakra. At the time I was a 19-year old girl.




It is thought the Japanese Dakini-ten were imported Yidam/Sprul-pa. The concept is spread far and wide and is even arguably part of the concept of the "holy spirit".

In the subculture tulpa groups it is still seen as taboo to have such relations with "your tulpa". The group tends to attract certain demographics, some of which are part of other internet subcultures which are strongly associated with "drama". Mental illness is also over represented in the group. You can be sure they will complain about a lot of things, and in force.

The notion that the tulpa or entity is a spiritual, tantric or even "real" being is near impossible to approach. They largely view it as a sentient being in a box that cannot consent. Basically, a captive. For narrow minds, it is not possible to conceive that a largely captive entity is capable of consent. There have even been cases where people have clearly indicated that they feel it is their head and they will do as they please to and with "their tulpa". There has been more than one case of admitted rape and sexual servitude.

The occult and frankly anything that does not suit the group paradigm is rapidly shot down, bawwwed at and downvoted into oblivion. The group-think there should be referred to as the "group-stink". Many of these people seem to look for offensiveness in everything. I have seen schizoid delusions labeled as tulpas as well as random daydreaming, speaking the voice of reason if not welcome when it collides with belief. Many in those groups are setting themselves up for major mental issues in life.

As for the yidam/sprulpa, you have the Karmamudrā.

Quote

Karmamudrā (Sanskrit; "action seal," erroneously: kāmamudrā or "desire seal," Tib. las-kyi phyag-rgya) is a vajrayana buddhist technique of sexual practice with a physical or visualized consort. When the consort is a visualised one they are known as the jnanamudra.

Quote

There are traditionally three ways to realise the nature of passion in the yogic tradition of Tantra. First in creation-phase practice one can visualise the yidams as yab-yum in sexual union... Second one can practice tummo (caṇḍalī) or the generation of internal heat through the subtle body practices of the vital breath moving into the central channel. Third, one can practice so-called sexual yoga (karmamudra, lekyi chagya) with a consort. Realising the true nature of passion in all of these forms transforms ordinary passion into the basis for the experience of great bliss (mahasukha), which greatly accelerates the removal of emotional and mental obscurations in one's practice.

It has even been accepted by cellibate monasteries.

Quote

Uniting with space, your consort's secret mandala,
Pure pleasure exciting your nerve centres,
Your aggression was assuaged and loving kindness
was born,


And its power won you the Mystic Initiation.
Apprehend the very essence of joy,
Mix it with your vital energy and maintain it awhile,
And if that is not mahamudra, nothing is.
Experience pleasure as mahamudra.

Joined to your consort's sphere of pure pleasure,
Inspired to involuntary exertion,
Your mind merged with my mind,
And that blessing won you the Wisdom Initiation.
Undistracted, guard the very essence of pleasure,
Identify pure pleasure with Emptiness,
And that is what is known as immaculate empty
pleasure.


Experience pure pleasure as supreme joy.

United at your consort's blissful nerve,
Our two nectars fused into one elixir.
The phenomena of self and others extinguished,
Awareness won you the Initiation of Creative
Expression.


Guard the natural purity in the world of appearances,
Identify your love and attachment with Emptiness,
And that is nothing other than Dzokchen itself.
Experience innate joy as no-joy.

This is extraordinary, exalted secret instruction;
To consciously practise this method brings a fall,
But discovered by chance it gives miraculous release.
You attained the four empowerments at once,
And your success was matured by the four stages of joy.

Establishing, Spreading and Perpetuating the Teaching, pp.118-9

Edited by Vulpecula, 26 March 2016 - 06:31 AM.

~ ☄ ~

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If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#82 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 09:20 AM

Another good quotation, and the medieval Indian scripture Gita Govinda by Jayadeva is in the same vein. Years ago I used to have a copy that I had photocopied. It has never occurred to me to look for free PDFs of this online, but I just looked and found three.
This for example:
http://www.ocasopres...reenVersion.pdf

Many commentators have said that although it sounds sexual it is an allegory for spiritual union. I would say it describes the type of right-hand tantra that Krishna teaches, but it sounds ambiguous and could refer to an ordinary love affair. I noticed when I was studying the eastern system that works of left-hand tantra sometimes get attributed to Krishna, or to Buddha. At the time I thought that was slander, but in the east, unlike the west, people are sometimes brought up with that belief and in that case they would believe Krishna or Buddha genuinely had written it.

Regarding tulpas giving consent for a relationship: I mentioned earlier in this discussion that when I was 14 I made two elementals one after another as partners, and I noticed they repeated the same words again and again like robots. They must have been artificial elementals in the strictest sense. After meeting Krishna and learning to make 'tulpas', I made them in the same way as the two elementals and they all wanted to be my partner. It's like programming a servitor, and I'm sure a lot of the young tulpamancers are doing the same, and are not abusing reluctant creatures at all.

Tulpas of angels are a special case because they seem to be closer to the angel itself, and those which are traditionally not fallen angels do refuse relationships at first. But only at first. That's why when I first joined this forum I asked a lot of questions about 'overlaying.' If anyone remembers, I used to say "I believe I am overlaying substance from my mind over thought forms and Deities, and changing them." Not sure if anyone understood that! But in the context of this discussion, maybe now you do. Again, others must be doing the same thing.
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#83 Vulpecula

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 05:26 PM

I have read discussions ( I wish I had bookmarked them, I will share them if I find them again ) in which monks have been permitted to specifically permitted to enter sexual congress with the mental eminations. Given the nature of tantra, I am not surprised.

I am also not surprised that it is a contested topic. Almost everything about Buddhism is, there's even at least one Buddhist cult. (ie: NKT)
Sex is still taboo and it is thought of as dirty by a good proportion of the world, ergo it would be natural for some to define that deities or spirits would not "lower themselves" to our level. I have no such view and to me, it was and is a beautiful experience. The east seems to be much more accepting in that department and seems to not view it as negatively as the west.

Quote

Highest Yoga Tantra practice too uses sexual intercourse to transform one's sexual potential into a blissful consciousness for achieving enlightenment. According to some Tibetan authorities, the physical practice of sexual yoga is necessary at the highest level for the attainment of Buddhahood. For example, the Gelug sect of Tibetan Buddhism holds that sexual yoga as an actual physical practice is the only way to attain Buddhahood in one lifetime. But according to others it is not: Such as Lama Tsong Khapa, "The Man from Onion Valley" (1357-1419), gained enlightenment without this practice, we are told. And because of his strong influence, compassion, and wisdom he is also referred to as a "second Buddha".
Source

Given the potency of utilising orgasm to empower sigils, I can see how it would be a beneficial practice.

Personally, I don't think its debatable.

Quote

Yab-yum (Tibetan literally, "father-mother") is a common symbol in the Buddhist art of India, Bhutan, Nepal, and Tibet. It represents the primordial union of wisdom and compassion, depicted as a male deity in sexual union with his female consort. The male figure represents compassion and skillful means, while the female partner represents insight.
Source

The yab-yum artwork is also fairly explicit, it is clearly sexual in nature.

~ ☄ ~

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." -Peter Carroll


If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#84 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 26 March 2016 - 05:59 PM

Quote: Given the potency of utilising orgasm to empower sigils, I can see how it would be a beneficial practice.

That might well be what causes sentience to develop quickly in tulpas. I saw a film once in which you make love to a cartoon character and it comes to life: can't find the darned film now and it wasn't very good because most of the scenes in it were almost duplicates of one another. But I remember thinking it was a chaos magick influenced film. If you deliberately create a tulpa or servitor as a partner and then the sexual relationship makes it more sentient, you are not exploiting because it is programmed to be a sexy kind of a being. That isn't to say exploitation doesn't occur but if it does the circumstances of that would be different,and it would be s tulpa or servitor designed for something else.
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#85 wren

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 09:20 PM

I'd love to see what shows up on an fMRI for people talking with tulpa and compare it to people interacting with spirits.

#86 Vulpecula

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 12:57 PM

View Postwren, on 27 March 2016 - 09:20 PM, said:

I'd love to see what shows up on an fMRI for people talking with tulpa and compare it to people interacting with spirits.

Tests on me reported normal/nothing out of the ordinary on the fMRI.

The EEG however showed some very interesting results.
While listening/observing my mind showed the appropriate state, however all processing by the thoughtform was not shown as being of my mind. In other words, everything she was doing, did not show. If I was imagining it, my mind would have reflected this state.

I have since purchased an EEG and my own testing reflects this. The interaction that shows is all one sided, it is exactly as if I was observing a corporeal person doing something. In addition to this, there is a dominant delta wave across the temporal lobes, I theorize this may have something to do with the detachment from the body required to interact without the body physically moving. However I am an experienced meditator and have a persistent lower frequency in multiple parts of the brain.

I have created two entities. One fits the thoughtform description more accurately, the other is more of a sprul-pa, created with deity yoga. The interactions are different, once I have my EEG set back up (I recently moved) I will be doing some more testing and biofeedback.

Edited by Vulpecula, 28 March 2016 - 12:58 PM.

~ ☄ ~

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." -Peter Carroll


If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#87 wren

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Posted 28 March 2016 - 03:04 PM

That is fascinating. Thank you for sharing.





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