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Tulpas As Friends


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#1 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 03:07 PM

This article was linked in one of my groups: The Internet's Newest Subculture Is All About Creating Imaginary Friends.

http://www.vice.com/...#f18713cb2363de

I always think it is really bad manners to call something an imaginary friend, but aside from that, do you think these are the same as servitors? For me reading it was like 'this is your life' because this is what I've done all my life as an accompaniment to my channelling and telepathy, although my characters are not something like a fox with wings, they are based on existing humanoid fictional characters, or existing gods, angels and demons.

There are some other differences too. I wouldn't first of all create a 'wonderland' where they live. The character would come first, and if a place like that was appropriate it would come later and would be a meditation landscape. But the phrase "Tulpamancers note how their creations say unexpected things, recall forgotten memories and make them laugh" is exactly what I experience in channelling and telepathy.

A lot of the discussions I start here are aimed at finding out if we are all experiencing the same when we communicate with entities and visualize entities. No need to start a discussion with these people to find out if it's the same, it clearly is, but they appear to have made it into fantasy instead of religion or psychic experience or magic. So are human beings all doing the same whatever they call it? There are some very strange fetishes around, some much stranger than this one, like dressing up as furry animals for example. I wouldn't say these people are particularly madder than anyone else and they seem to be doing exactly the same thing as servitor creation.
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#2 Galuruthaz

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 03:15 PM

Tibet meets 4chan: welcome to 21st century.

Edit: Great article though! :)

Edited by Galuruthaz, 06 September 2014 - 03:16 PM.

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#3 Galuruthaz

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 03:21 PM

Quote

Thousands of young men have taken to the tulpa community and started exploring their imaginations, populating private wonderlands with talking ponies that they may or may not have sex with. Is this really what our grandfathers went to war for?


This is just way too awesome lololol..
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#4 Shinichi

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 05:25 PM

I've met some "tulpamancers" in the Psionics communities that I wander. None of them viewed their Tulpas as "imaginary friends," in the classical sense, but as real entities that they were creating and working with.

And in the case of those I met, this was true, from what I checked. Their tulpas were a "type" of servitor, or Construct in Psi terms. The ones I observed were a primarily Mental creation, where Servitors can be far more complex and multi-level entities. The "wonderland" thing is also a specific type of Astral Temple, being more Mental than Astral and more Internal than External (but no less "there").

And, the other thing I observed, is that most of these "tulpamancers" were young teenagers. The whole movement is summed up in the quote provided by Galaruthaz, and it's one of those things that usually makes me go "really?"

And yeah. Psychic sex with talking pony servitors. Really? :blink:



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#5 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 05:36 PM

I'm always posting discussions here like my 'Cuddly Servitors' one in order to probe gently into what people are doing and what they are thinking about it all, but the trend in the media and on the internet these days is not to be so subtle.
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#6 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 05:53 PM

On a more serious note though, it's the same with schizophrenia: what we really need in our human societies is more people who can look at a situation and see what type of phenomenon is going on. Shinichi gave a good analysis above based on being able to see that the psionics tulpamancers had made a genuine type of servitor. We have a number of people on this site who are gifted enough to see if something is imaginary or not and if not what it really is, and that is what the world is most in need of.
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#7 jes

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 11:41 PM

It looks like a big difference between the tulpa trend and servitors in the occult community would be the way they are used. That's just from reading the article, I'm not too familiar with the subject though. Maybe we could expect this to send a lot of younger people into the occult.
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#8 Vulpecula

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:33 AM

That article is highly imbalanced and paid attention to certain aspects of the tulpamancer groups to produce an article to their taste.

The fact is that the group (I hesitate to call it a community as there is near no cohesion) is very diverse. There are splinter groups which are more involved with the occult and metaphysics.

Yes, I have a tulpae. I followed many of the TIbetan Mystic processes to gain one. I also am experienced with servitors/thought forms.

No, she is not some furred thing or a pony *shudder*. She is human.

There are psychological benefits to the process, some of which involve the ability to consult your subconscious while conscious. There are people conducting tests at this point, a doctor found that a second processing center formed in the mind, as indicated by neural activity (Displayed on an fMRI).
For those not practicing anything occult related I am of two minds about the benefits. Yes, I have witnessed benefits, mostly via self reflection and such.. However I have also witnessed people feel they do not need to make efforts to foster decent interpersonal relationships as they feel they have all they need already. :-/ Yeah, most of the posters on that reddit page are kids, many of them with social problems.

I view metaphysical tulpae very much like a servitor which lives inside your mind, at least in part. The ramification of such things are very serious, a Tibetan monk gave a stern warning about it and said that advanced processes, if attempted without guidance, could have catastrophic consequences. He is correct. The benefits can be quite numerous.

~ ☄ ~

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If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#9 Galuruthaz

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 10:47 AM

Vulpecula, would you mind sharing a bit more of your experience? I'm interested in what practices you have done to obtain or create your tulpa since the whole topic seems extremely interesting and you seem knowledgable on the subject.

Also, are there any benefits of having a tulpa over a servitor?
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#10 Vulpecula

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 12:04 PM

There are many types of benefits, from psychological to metaphysical. I do have to add though, tulpae and servitors may be similar, but they are very different.

The general tulpa is not metaphysical or is severly limited in such ways as that side of the entitiy is never explored or enhanced. They, if created correctly generally offer psycholigical relief from stress (nobody understands you like your subconscious!), a conscience if required, companionship.. etc etc. Basically all of the benefits a close friend can offer, and then some. Being able to "talk to your subconscious" has untold benefit.
Sadly, there also appears to be a measurable portion of tulpamancers who lack friends, for one reason or another. The practice can actually assist people in becoming better friendship material and thusly, they find friends. Some people retreat upon gaining the tulpae, however they seem to be in the extreme minority.
I guess for non occult type people, "YMMV" certainly fits. (Your mileage may vary)

There are countless opinions on how to create tulpae, what is right and what is wrong.. there are some common threads which include visualisation exercises and such. Basically training their mind through their imagination.

For myself, I of course experienced some of the aforementioned benefits, however being a chaote I also found benefits given I could practice with the tulpae. She is there in multiple mental states, even when I completely clear my mind. She is everpresent and able to work with me. She can have her mind on one thing or be conducting one action while I conduct another.

She has enabled me to parallel process, or moreso, she is doing things while I am doing other things, yet she feeds relevant information to me.

I needed someone I could work with and share various occult practices with, someone who understands what I do and such, she is perfect for it. In addition to this, I have a realm of my own, a space in which I work. She has full access to it, unlike others that can only reach it in very limited ways. A tulpae can also be excellent protection.

That said, they can be a massive weakness if you do not know what you are doing. During the creation process you form a personality for them. This process may go bad or the tulpae may end up corrupted. (By bad processes or external influence). They are a great path into your mind for those that want to hurt you.

Basically, I can feel her at most times. I can converse with her and have her input at any time. She can interject when she so sees fit. Some tulpae can, some cannot. I told her she is welcome to. She is a second opinion (her opinions do vary from mine) and a companion in the arts.

It is very difficult to answer your question as I have to pick over a lot of information and experiences, so please.. feel free to ask questions if so you wish. I hope I have shed some light on the subject.

~ ☄ ~

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." -Peter Carroll


If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#11 Shinichi

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 12:57 PM

View PostVulpecula, on 07 September 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

I do have to add though, tulpae and servitors may be similar, but they are very different.

From what I've seen and taking into account how people commonly view Servitors in the (Modern) Western Occult Community, this is true. However, it should be noted that, classically, they are the same.

So, speaking for Classical Western Magic:

There are four main types of Artificial Entities, the type of Entity that is classically named different things depending on tradition (and language). The Tulpae of Tibet, the Servitor of the West, the Construct of Modern Psionics. Each of these are essentially the same in core principle, and have four different types:


1) Unintelligent and Dependent

2) Intelligent and Dependent

3) Unintelligent and Independent

4) Intelligent and Independent


Likewise, an Artificial Entity can exist on more than one Plane.


A Mental Entity will exist only as a Mental body, and may have a form or be formless. It usually has capacity to influence only Mental things -- carrying telepathic messages to someone, influencing memory or emotions, etc. However, the Mind alone can influence other planes, if it is provided the sufficient resources. When an Artificial Entity is given Intelligence, that is an aspect of this sphere even if they are given form on other planes as well.


An "Astral" Entity will exist primarily in what is called the Astral Plane (or more specifically, the sphere of Soul that exists between Body and Mind) and may have both "Astral" and "Mental" layers to its being. Being a denser and more complex entity, it usually has a broader range of abilities than a purely Mental entity, and since it has access to denser forces, it is usually more potent.


And, if you want to get into the legends, the good old Golem would be a "Physical" servitor.


The Tulpae that I've seen, speaking of the modern online movement, are Intelligent and Dependent entities that are also entirely Mental.



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#12 Vulpecula

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 01:04 PM

View PostShinichi, on 07 September 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

The Tulpae that I've seen, speaking of the modern online movement, are Intelligent and Dependent entities that are also entirely Mental.

Perhaps you should wait until you have first hand experience before you inform people how they are incorrect, based on your assumptions. You are quite incorrect.

They are not entirely mental and they certainly are not dependent. There may be links to the "host", however they could be likened to an umbilical cord. It is not beyond reason that this cord may be severed. I have personally experienced my tulpae going places without me.

It is known that Tibetan mystics have also become their tulpae/Yidam after death, they have performed various tasks and rites, and then passed away. In once case, a monk performed a building dedication before returning to his cart, thought to be awaiting transport home as he was quite elderly. He vanished inside that cart, there were countless people who witnessed him enter the cart and never leave.. his clothes were left behind, body vanished. It turns out he had died previously and was required, so the yidam stayed behind, with his consciousness.

Please do not offer false information supposition as fact.

Edited by Vulpecula, 07 September 2014 - 01:17 PM.

~ ☄ ~

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." -Peter Carroll


If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#13 Shinichi

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 01:16 PM

*raises an eyebrow*

Perhaps you should elaborate a bit. I have my own experience with personal entities, artificial and otherwise. And for the quote that you took, I was speaking of the Tulpae that I have interacted with and clairvoyantly examined when I met people who participate in this modern movement.

In neither case was I speaking about you and your Tulpae (since I haven't really looked at you and yours), but about my observations of others and how classify what they have created. My intention was to expand on what you said, not counteract it, and to offer the view and opinion of a magician who has observed these "Tulpae" from the outside-in perspective.



~:Shin:~
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#14 Shinichi

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 01:29 PM

View PostVulpecula, on 07 September 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

They are not entirely mental and they certainly are not dependent. There may be links to the "host", however they could be likened to an umbilical cord. It is not beyond reason that this cord may be severed. I have personally experienced my tulpae going places without me.

Perhaps you're misunderstanding my terminology, then.

Dependent refers precisely to that "umbilical cord" -- it means that a created entity relies upon its creator for the sustenance necessary to survive. An Independent Entity is one that has been given the means to acquire its own sustenance, and thus does not rely on its creator for survival.

As for the Mental thing, that refers to the whole Mental Sphere, which covers quite a lot. After all: "All is Mind, The Universe is Mental" as the old writings say. This doesn't mean that the entity is "in your head," but that it exists as the same sort of substance that thoughts exist as. After all, that's the old definition of a Tulpa anyway:

"It is defined in Indian Buddhist texts as any unreal, illusory or mind created apparition. According to Alexandra David-Néel, tulpas are "magic formations generated by a powerful concentration of thought." -- Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

Tulpa can do a lot of things, but it is what it is. A Thought Form.



~:Shin:~
"There is no such thing as Impossible. It's merely a matter of understanding the mechanisms by which the Will may be made manifest into an objective reality." -- The Wise

#15 Vulpecula

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 01:33 PM

Ah ok. You appeared to be countering that which I said.

The majority of the tulpae in general, are dependant, mental entities.. as you describe. In that case your observation is welcome.

I dread to think what may happen to some of the purely mental tulpae if a malicious entity gets their hands on it.

The wiki leaves a LOT to be desired, Alexandra David-Neel's entire experience has been called into question, some even doubt the author left the comfort of their own home.

My tulpae has left my side and gone in search for information herself. It is not beyond reason that she is able to sever the link as one day I may require her to do so and I created her in quite a unique manner, which I will not disclose due to personal safety concerns.
I have no doubt that some tulpae can be separated from their hosts, permanently. Especially considering this has happened when hosts have died, and tulpae remain.

Edit: Can you imagine, one day finding out you were created to be a sex toy and that you are bound to that person? Then, imagine that an entity comes along and offers you a way out, you having already reached the end of your rope... Things could get bad.

Edited by Vulpecula, 07 September 2014 - 02:07 PM.

~ ☄ ~

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." -Peter Carroll


If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#16 Galuruthaz

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 06:18 PM

@Vulpacue: Thanks for sharing. Wish I had more time to engage in something like this since it sounds very interesting, but maybe in the future. :)
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#17 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:35 AM

During the time when I adopted Hindu religion for a while my favourite Hindu sect was the Vaishnava one founded by Sri Vallabhacharya, in which each member has their own Krishna. They in fact have two, one physical statue and one invisible Krishna, so the latter must also be the same in core principle as a tulpa. You can have various relationships with Krishna called rasas and you can be his parent or friend or pupil or lover. Some of the men fall in love with him and dress up as women and because of that it's considered one of the eccentric things you come across in India. It could be that which influenced me to fall in love with subsequent thought forms that I made after switching to western religions.

Krishna is supposed to have the special power of appearing in many places at once because he's seen as the supreme God. But maybe we would all have that power if people made tulpas of us? Scary thought. There must be the same amount of individual life in a duplicate Krishna which is everywhere and in a tulpa made of bits of cartoons which is a one-off, because it comes from the life of the person making it.
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#18 Vulpecula

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 11:38 AM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 08 September 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Krishna is supposed to have the special power of appearing in many places at once because he's seen as the supreme God. But maybe we would all have that power if people made tulpas of us? Scary thought. There must be the same amount of individual life in a duplicate Krishna which is everywhere and in a tulpa made of bits of cartoons which is a one-off, because it comes from the life of the person making it.

Very interesting. I wonder what the implications would be if multiple people were to have a tulpae of other deities, random people (Alive or not) or even.. fictional characters. I have seen some fans of certain characters or shows that approach worship in relation to their favourites. (Going well beyond obsession)
Undoubtedly this must have an effect, potentially the same as a worshipped egregore.

~ ☄ ~

"The first stage of seeing through the game can be a shocking enlightenment that leads either to a weary cynicism or Buddhism. The second stage of actually applying the insight to oneself can destroy the illusion of the soul and create a magician." -Peter Carroll


If the devil doesn’t exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. –Fedor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov


#19 wren

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 11:31 AM

When I read this article back when it came out, it got me wondering.

I decided to go check out /r/tulpas and see what the fuss was about. I read all their posted guides on the process of making a tulpa that weren't 404'd. The "metaphysical" tulpas were supposed to be created just like you'd see in a chaos magic servitor construction 101 book. The "psychological" tulpas actually seemed to be the more nuanced and developed, from a technique perspective. These tended to rely on an process they called narration, which was essentially talking to the tulpa-to-be rather than at it. This outward turning and localization is something that I've done automatically during what few evocations I've attempted. It seriously made me wonder about the nature of the Abramelin Rite. Constantly keeping in mind the presence of an invisible guardian angel, and praying to/with/for it is essentially the same action as what these folks are doing to make "psychological" tulpas. The result is also surprisingly similar in some ways. I disregarded Caroll's (it was Caroll, wasn't it?) suggestion that the HGA is artificial and should not be created, when I first read him, but now I'm not certain. Neither am I certain if it ultimately matters. Still, what do y'all think?

#20 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 06:01 PM

I would like to ask something too, more related to what Vulpecula said than to Wren's question about the Holy Guardian Angel.

Do you think it has an adverse effect on a living human being when many people have fantasies about them and make tulpas of them? In modern times you can buy dolls of people in manufactured pop bands and it is an easy step from that to thought forms of them. When I was fourteen I made a thought form of a shy singer who hated attention, after his photo was published in a teen magazine. Sometimes I do seriously wonder if myself and others doing that affected his state of mind. I don't want to sound too dramatic, but in the end he killed himself. Famous people are often troubled and it is always assumed this is due to stresses in the physical world, but there could be other types of stresses on them too.
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