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Within The Abyss?

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#21 R. Eugene Laughlin

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:57 PM

I think people primarily use labels like the Abyss and HGA because they connote to some conception or other of spiritual or magical attainment. I don't think either label has a real, specific, or valid meaning. Rather, people apply them to themselves for a wide range of reasons.

If we're generous, we might say that most people apply such labels to themselves because they experienced something personally significant, a revelation, change in perspective, etc. The rest, I readily assume, use the terms to make themselves out as accomplished within the community.

The community on the whole is way too accepting of vague and sloppy language in my opinion. Some personal experiences can't be properly described in language, but that's not a good reason to apply catchall terms like these. Their use leads to more misunderstanding than clarity.
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#22 grbree


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Posted 21 June 2014 - 08:28 PM

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 19 June 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

I find this reply somewhat laughable because you seem to agree with others here who have said almost identical things as my post implies, just differently or a little more metaphorically. It may be that you and I are talking about different things altogether. I am talking about the subject that MagiAwen's link refers to (which is a good assessment of the experience from a particular perspective) and you seem to be referring more to the overall focus of this sub-forum; all the stupid trappings of Satanism and the oft-misunderstood "left-hand path". This sub-forum is not really aptly named in my opinion but that's another subject for another time.

To be honest, I was trying to make plain an experience that is often glossed over with half-understood metaphors. For example, Crowley refers to one who has taken the "Oath of the Abyss" as a "Babe of the Abyss" (both code words for an aspirant who has presumably done the degree work up to Exempt Adept and decided to step into the "abyss" experience consciously) and you may notice that I stated that the experience puts one in a state close to infancy (a state of "imprint vulnerability"). In that sense "Babe of the Abyss" can be taken somewhat literally. The experience, even though potentially earth shattering, is actually a little more down to earth than occultists would like to have it. I guess for you that would be "boring" though.

If you really want to get at an understanding of this experience I suggest looking further into what "imprint vulnerability" means and implies (and what actions put one there) as well as looking into the various stages (or trials) in the making of the "future shaman" (see Mircea Eliade's interpretations of the subject).

Well agreeing in theory yes and i would of assumed that me agreeing with magiawen had linked that it was easily understandable that i pertained to your idea aswell, geuss not so let me clarify, IF the description that you have given is "correct" (along with what? 3 others have said) then i have already experienced this "crossing" multiple times and now i have learned to enter the "abyss" consciously which is now really really boring and leaves little left to gain now, this why i refuse to believe it to be the abyss and yes maybe i am focused on the "unimportant" off the lhp i can honestly admit this because of the reason behind the fixation, i get results and over the last 6 months i have yet to see my techniques fail me so whats left?? I have concreted my space of death i dont wish to unbecome or start all over, i want to have fun and fighting devouring and burning is what i call fun, the abyss MY abyss is that fun.
He who can surpass death so will conquer life.

It is what it is.

#23 Son of the Wave

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 03:52 PM

All I can say to your post there grbree is that you seem fairly ignorant of the experience I'm talking about or that you have actually come to the edge of something similar to it and fell into the traps I alluded to. "Abyss" literally means "bottomless" and as a metaphor for a human experience it means having no context for what is happening or that one's context has been stripped or wiped clean. This is anything but boring or not fun as there is no context in the abyss for "boring" or "fun". At this point I could just simply state that I'm starting to find this particular discussion rather boring in it's lack of depth (another meaning of "abyss") so I'll leave it at that and move on.

#24 ChaosTech

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 07:12 PM

The Abyss? That's child's play, try the three negative veils. ;)
[i]There are no gods but God, we know him through his order, his mind, the the miracle Jesus Christ. Give up most magic, give up enlightenment and or transcendence. No one can behold God, infinite is beyond, submit and know it creates and sustains creation forever. No true limit, no true death, no true nothingness. E=MC2, and gain and sustainability are greater than loss. The universe infinitely is expanding, growing becoming better and more immortal as are we. Resist evil, for it is an excess, ultimately a lie of true death. There is hell, as the Bible says, but there is choice! Choose wisely. Human origins, cosmic life, magical creatures, heaven, hell, earth and purgatory, many religions. Fascinating indeed, but in this world, no man was like Jesus Christ, and has the worlds largest faith.[\i]

#25 RoseRed

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:12 PM

Three negative veils?
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#26 Brennan

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:13 AM

...isnt that what abyss-hoping reveals?

I mean, to have one without the other seems as though it really isnt one ( or zero ) that is beijg regarded. I mean, when in abyss.. there is a clear sight and vision of of the three neg. layers... or is there a diff. term for that?

#27 Son of the Wave

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:39 AM

View PostRoseRed, on 23 June 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

Three negative veils?
What Tech meant was the Qabalistic Three Veils of Negative Existence, Ain (nothing), Ain Soph (boundless) and Ain Soph Aur (boundless light), which are situated above Kether on the Tree of Life diagram. The three veils also double as a representation of the three other world trees which are beyond our abilities to conceptualize.

Edited by Nalyd Khezr Bey, 24 June 2014 - 12:41 AM.

#28 RoseRed

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:03 PM

Thanx, Naly.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#29 Brennan

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:12 AM

So.. then that's kether?

#30 grbree


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Posted 25 June 2014 - 03:45 AM

Zob that is imo a great way to explain it in a simple way, and if you were to practice it repeatedly you would be able to hold multiple paradigms at the same time, Scott fitzgerald said it best "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the abiliy to function.".

Nalyd that would be wrong while you continue to insult me, a few topics on here have discussed and come to the conclusion , in which i agree whole heartedly, EVERYTHING had conciousness in one form or another the simpel act of thinking of nothing gives it substancr, the true definition of nothing is the form of everything being one and being a human living breathing eating still has conciouness granted it is the mosy subtle secret and quiet that is here.Not to mention if the said person has multiple spirits with ties to the core of the persons soul those being in a way become that person but out side of there existence.

R.Eugene Laughlin that is inevitable seeing as there are no set rules and standards for this hidden practice, and try as you might bringing it into the scientific community will only ever progress as we gain technology to obtain quantified results.

Pertaining to the tree of life zob theory would come into play, just being there.
He who can surpass death so will conquer life.

It is what it is.

#31 Monkey Sage


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Posted 09 July 2014 - 02:57 AM

For my spiritual purposes, the Abyss isn't something you cross. It is the end of all things. You can visit it, touch upon it, but just like hitting rock bottom, once you've been there, the only way to go on from there is to ascend. There is no "other side" to this Abyss as it is featureless, without dimension. It is the all-consuming emptiness. Without any qualities whatsoever, it is Nirguna.

Edited by sen, 11 July 2014 - 04:10 AM.

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#32 TheCusp


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Posted 11 July 2014 - 01:55 AM

View Postsen, on 09 July 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

There is "other side" to this Abyss as it is featureless, without dimension. It is the all-consuming emptiness. Without any qualities whatsoever, it is Nirguna.

That's just Saskatchewan.
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#33 Barrackubus

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 06:13 PM

Well, based upon my asking around and the possible absence of anything past the 6=5 grade within even the school of Thelema found on the Internet, and also without any true indication as to what it is that can solidly pinpoint it specifically.
It was reported even some have lacked momentum after the 6=5 grade in the early days of the Golden Dawn.
There is Crowleys Testament in the Vision and the Voice..
But admitingly the prose is even still difficult for me to attach myself too.
All we can do is determine from our own experiences and draw our own conclusions.
For a few years now I have been in a rut. Everything is against me in some fashion.
And being non egotistical in all things I can’t turn it. My words no longer bring about the diplomatic results of external conflicts. Maybe I no longer can enchant specific relationships for betterment of all not like before. But the knotting is tight.
Maybe you know you to get through it, but maybe what is needed for resolve seems a bit egotistical...maybe you have been so afraid of being egotistical that the your whole universe is turned upside down on you, and maybe you need to do something for yourself.
I keep myself calm and centered.
I was once hollowed out before but the outside has gotten to the inside, that barrier is no longer present, maybe the fight for the Abyss is to gain that again. To once again feel that energy flow through your body again, to connected to that current because you are hopelessly lost without it...
Even in Crowley teachings that the end result is to be reunited with the HGA.
Maybe it is a long term Chakra blockage, because you’re missing a piece to bring balance to everything internal.

Edited by Barrackubus, 04 March 2016 - 06:19 PM.

It should never be forgotten for a single moment that the central and essential work of the Magician is the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Once he has achieved this he must of course be left entirely in the hands of that Angel, who can be invariably and inevitably relied upon to lead him to the further great step—crossing of the Abyss and the attainment of the grade of Master of the Temple. (Magick Without Tears, Ch.83)

Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole law....
28) Every man has a right to fulfil his own will without being afraid that it may interfere with that of others; for if he is in his proper place, it is t he fault of others if they interfere with him.

#34 Aunt Clair

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 04:01 AM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 05 June 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Lately I have noticed that if you are afraid of something you get stronger transformative results from it, probably because of the respect for it. That would certainly apply to the abyss. My view of it is very influenced by 'Master of the Temple' which features Abaddon and the abyss, but I have had a couple of experiences as well as reading a book.

I dreamed once that I walked up to a beautiful blue river and realised that it was the River Styx. There's some kind of idea this is at the bottom of the abyss, though there is also the idea that the abyss is bottomless. I walked along the bank and after a little way it divided into two branches, of which one branch had crowds of people on the river banks and the other was nearly deserted and wound up through beautiful woodlands. I was thinking of them as Hell and Heaven and started to follow the Heaven branch through the woodlands, but then I felt an impulse to dive into the river and swim. It was icy cold and the cold went right through me, so after a bit I was forced to get out.

This is an archetypical depiction of the river of enlightenment above it is the rainbow river of life flowing from a blue stream and becoming multicoloured and warm, below it is cold and black and inky the River of Death , the River Styx. In Shamballah, the teaching plane of higher realms there is a temporally stable construct of the River upon which all manner of temples and portals abound. The underground River of Death is biforcated into two branches as you describe. The one seems dark and foreboding and hidden. On this fork there are three islands upon these the mystic can meet the avatars and heal their souls and their "selves" with attunements, and esoteric wisdoms. In contrast , the bright golden city allures travellers to its coast on the other branch and like the adage all that glitters is not gold , that is a place of the Hels. Some spirits are mired there like Pinocchios in a land of revelry or King Midas's who think that might be paradise. It is an illusion which traps the errant spirits.


Some years later I went to the abyss in a meditation that I was doing in a group. I may have said something before about the symbols I saw on the way to the abyss, and how I later saw them in a long animated TV advertisement. The person who made the advert had put in symbolism that was in 'Master of the Temple' and also symbolism I'd seen in my meditation. Anyway when I got there I leaned over and looked in, and there was a magnetic force pulling me. An angel had to pull me back so that I wouldn't fall in. Then I went back the way I came.

Last year I came across several Pagan ladies on another forum who all said they had crossed the abyss. I didn't want to be rude to them by saying no you haven't, but they sounded like ordinary people and I thought crossing the abyss was enlightenment.
I am convinced that the path to enlightenment is not linear but spiral both ascending and descending in current of energies and that the closure of this river of energies in a loop occurs at the crossing of the abyss. These crossings do not merely mark death or enlightenment but are like stepping stones on the river which the neophyte and the master cross eternally . Each crossing makes it easier to cross the next time. The crossing and closing of the black cube to the white cube at the clasp of the cosmic spheres affords for a time a state of Nirvana, Kether , Samadhi. Each crossing yields a longer stay but only the master can walk in the physical world while maintaining the contact with source. Enlightenment is an infinite journey of the soul through countless lives until one might become an Avatar and break the wheel or might return with compassion to the world to help the rest.

The abyss is fallen into in the Dark Night of the Soul , that is part of the passage. Soaked in one's own failings , one can and must crawl out again and hopefully emerge on the other shore . But it is not a once and over journey nor does it mean death of the physical to descend. Instead it is like cleaning out the garage and the basement. The house of our body can not ascend in vibration without these 'spring cleans for the May Queen'.

"Stairway To Heaven"

There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold
And she's buying a stairway to heaven.
When she gets there she knows, if the stores are all closed
With a word she can get what she came for.
Ooh, ooh, and she's buying a stairway to heaven.

There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven.

Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who stand looking.

Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And it's whispered that soon, if we all call the tune,
Then the piper will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long,
And the forests will echo with laughter.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know,
The piper's calling you to join him,
Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind?

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul.
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold.
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

And she's buying a stairway to heaven.
~ Led Zeppelin.

#35 Spida


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Posted 02 April 2017 - 12:08 AM

I've contemplated this Abyss off and on. In Qabalah it's the separation of the Supernal Triad from the rest of the Sephiroth. Represented by Daath, the hidden Sephirah. Daath has no number, for in it all is confusion.

If you look at it another way. You have Kether the Primordial Point, which is the Singularity before the Big Bang. The initial expansion of the Universe occurred at super luminal speed. Continues to this day, but I believe has slowed some. This has created unfathomable distances from the original expansion point, which could be thought of as the Divine Source. Rendering it unreachable by any physical means. The untraversable Abyss. Space and Time rendering Divinity unreachable and unknowable. Of course there is a Spiritual approach.

I've said before that crossing the Abyss has partly to do with understanding that reason has been transcended and only truth remains.

So beyond Kether you have the Light which arose from negative existence. Something from nothing. This light is God, the ambiguous. God came from nothing. So would not be eternal in a contiguous sense, but in an infinitely periodic sense. The mind of God would not occupy space, but the Light of it's mind would be limitless, ergo the limitless light. Now there is a reflection to this in the Microcosm. It works the same way when we dream. Our dreams don't occupy four dimensional space, but there is the illusion of space in which to act out our dreams. The mind of Man being a Microcosm to the mind of God. As above so below.

Seems like if this were the case, space and matter would be illusions and would only exist as some sort of Divine thought process.

I suppose truth isn't the only thing that remains once reason has been transcended, there is also insanity!

Edited by Spida, 02 April 2017 - 12:11 AM.

#36 Spida


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Posted 02 April 2017 - 04:57 PM

It's also interesting to note that the Briatic Era(that was of relatively short duration in Universal terms, as compared with the Eons of Yetzirah)where God appears to have initiated what is perhaps the single most important act of Creation. Was to Divide itself into the Archetypal Male and Female aspects.

These archetypal Gender manifestations are also obscured by a massive portion of the Abyss, they are to be quite Divine indeed!


#37 ChaosRose


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Posted 20 May 2017 - 05:30 AM

View Postgrbree, on 04 June 2014 - 02:59 AM, said:

So within the abyss huh? As i have experienced it is the last of the trials , for a reason. The abyss is your worse fears and the all the passed pain of the dead n living reside, in way or another, i experience it as a river that you wade into at first the deeper u go the more you see about ppl, u see th truth of everything, then abbadon comes you must accepthis ordeal with no struggle, then once passed you must meet all the damned spirits who hate n wish to inflict true pain, after you meet xoronzonia she shows you yourself true nature how disgusting humans are .

That's my experience, anyone wanna share therea?

Yep. That's what it's like. You have to face yourself, and there's no one better at punishing you...because no one knows you like you know yourself. If you don't make peace with yourself, you may just wallow in the Abyss forever.

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