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Within The Abyss?


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#1 grbree

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 02:59 AM

So within the abyss huh? As i have experienced it is the last of the trials , for a reason. The abyss is your worse fears and the all the passed pain of the dead n living reside, in way or another, i experience it as a river that you wade into at first the deeper u go the more you see about ppl, u see th truth of everything, then abbadon comes you must accepthis ordeal with no struggle, then once passed you must meet all the damned spirits who hate n wish to inflict true pain, after you meet xoronzonia she shows you yourself true nature how disgusting humans are .

That's my experience, anyone wanna share therea?
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#2 TheCusp

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:21 AM

Not sure about the abyss, but my angry violent fixations have landed me in a hell realm. What made it bad was all the other people, their behavior, all guided by the same fixation. Didn't seem to be a test I had to endure, only attachments I really needed to let go of.

There was a threshold or gateway I had to cross before I entered it. Leaving was easy. It was a dream, so everything requires your attention to exist. I just flew off and didn't look back.
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#3 Jastiv

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:37 AM

I would describe it as a non-attachment, not carrying about anything, desperatly trying to hang unto a sense of want before nothing matters anymore, and one thing becomes just as awful as any other thing.
I needed to strengthen all my attachments, cling to them and not let go. I needed to enhance all my desires and feel stronger connections with people, things and goals.

#4 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:06 AM

Lately I have noticed that if you are afraid of something you get stronger transformative results from it, probably because of the respect for it. That would certainly apply to the abyss. My view of it is very influenced by 'Master of the Temple' which features Abaddon and the abyss, but I have had a couple of experiences as well as reading a book.

I dreamed once that I walked up to a beautiful blue river and realised that it was the River Styx. There's some kind of idea this is at the bottom of the abyss, though there is also the idea that the abyss is bottomless. I walked along the bank and after a little way it divided into two branches, of which one branch had crowds of people on the river banks and the other was nearly deserted and wound up through beautiful woodlands. I was thinking of them as Hell and Heaven and started to follow the Heaven branch through the woodlands, but then I felt an impulse to dive into the river and swim. It was icy cold and the cold went right through me, so after a bit I was forced to get out.

Some years later I went to the abyss in a meditation that I was doing in a group. I may have said something before about the symbols I saw on the way to the abyss, and how I later saw them in a long animated TV advertisement. The person who made the advert had put in symbolism that was in 'Master of the Temple' and also symbolism I'd seen in my meditation. Anyway when I got there I leaned over and looked in, and there was a magnetic force pulling me. An angel had to pull me back so that I wouldn't fall in. Then I went back the way I came.

Last year I came across several Pagan ladies on another forum who all said they had crossed the abyss. I didn't want to be rude to them by saying no you haven't, but they sounded like ordinary people and I thought crossing the abyss was enlightenment.

Edited by SuccubusSherry, 05 June 2014 - 08:18 AM.


#5 grbree

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:04 AM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 05 June 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Last year I came across several Pagan ladies on another forum who all said they had crossed the abyss. I didn't want to be rude to them by saying no you haven't, but they sounded like ordinary people and I thought crossing the abyss was enlightenment.

Depends on what kind of enlightenment your talking about self universal "godly" or draconian, I've always thought of it as universal but instead of sitting cross legged for eternity you become proactive about things. Although this is my opinion i have in no way crossed the abyss or the river styx which i have come to assume is what the Greeks called it, but i have dived down to its depths and have realised that i know so little about the earthly plane and don't even know what i don't know about the infinite others, i probably never will either but i am content to know what i truly am.
He who can surpass death so will conquer life.

It is what it is.

#6 ChaosTech

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:51 PM

The abyss, is a great depth. This can be applied to the great depth within, and so like Daath in the Kabbalah, or the great depth without, like the deepest ocean or the darkest place between the galaxies. In D&D the Abyss is the lowest plane of the infernal realms or the bottom of creation, and contains the maximum chaotic and negative plane. My point is there are many abysses and people who say they have crossed one, are usually referring to transcendence or ascendance to a non-relative or higher more abstract plane. Still this is merely cracking the gateways of awareness. Until you blink out of reality have you really crossed anything and so I reserve skepticism for the great Ipsissimuses, who are still eating and shitting like mortal men and women. Though at the same time I value levels of awareness. ;)


For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.

#7 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:19 PM

The Abyss is also the Place of the Crossing; a state of inbetweenness. This can take numerous forms of experience. One may cross many in a lifetime or fall into one and never get out. The Abyss experience common to most people would take the form of trauma of some sort. Extreme traumas will put one into a state that Timothy Leary termed "imprint vulnerability". This is a very fragile state to be in for obvious reasons; it can be the moment that dictates the course of the rest of one's life. It is a state that magicians are in the habit of deliberately cultivating. It is also the region where a magician can become a total failure and fall into the category of what Crowley referred to as "black brother". The reason Crowley seemed to imply that it is hopeless for an individual once they fall into this trap is because most are not willing to endure an equal trauma to break free of it. Most will also not recognize their own resulting neuroses and/or psychoses.

#8 grbree

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:06 PM

So in one way shape or form it can be said -the abyss" is a trial, which dependant upon the individual i.e spiritual path religiousl beliefs down to what cereal they eat for breakfast, different for all and if successful, a profound learning experience?

This how i have equated the second (or first) stage of death from this plane, a self generated reward or punishment which whether you know it or not is completely controlled by your past. The abyss being a self generated .....moment if that can put justice to the what im thinking right now, a moment in which you control what your future could possibly be.

Edited by grbree, 06 June 2014 - 05:12 PM.

He who can surpass death so will conquer life.

It is what it is.

#9 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 02:25 AM

View Postgrbree, on 06 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

So in one way shape or form it can be said -the abyss" is a trial, which dependant upon the individual i.e spiritual path religiousl beliefs down to what cereal they eat for breakfast, different for all and if successful, a profound learning experience?
I would not classify it this way personally because learning has little to do with it. In fact I would say it's more akin to unlearning or, more specifically, a shattering of illusions.

Most individuals tend to think or feel they have a sense of who they are and tend to believe they are more or less happy with that sense. Magicians and occultists are no different and often times we have an inflated sense of who we are because most of us have simply added more illusory armor on top of a whole heap of pre-existing rubbish.* When one actually comes to the threshold of experience that is referred to as "the abyss" in occult literature one is actually at a point of crisis; one's bottom drops out. That sense of "who I am" no longer exists and all that one has learned and attained becomes nothing as one is reduced, in greater or lesser degrees, to a state very similar to a newborn infant. Whatever happens in this state can potentially re-form an individual in a very real way. It's not a learning experience, a flash of insight, a turning point or anything as such. One is imprinted and changed permanently.

* The occult rubbish heap is actually just more armor protecting and disguising very deep-seated injuries and insecurities. Just try to strip it away and see how you start to feel. That feeling will give you a minor taste of what I'm actually talking about. Now go all the way with it. If most magicians and occultists actually did the work they profess then there would actually be less talk of (insert favorite brand of occult belief system here).

#10 TheCusp

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:47 PM

View Postgrbree, on 06 June 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

So in one way shape or form it can be said -the abyss" is a trial, which dependant upon the individual i.e spiritual path religiousl beliefs down to what cereal they eat for breakfast, different for all and if successful, a profound learning experience?

Not a trial, a trap. Yes, it was a place I created through angry violent thoughts and fixations, but just because it existed didn't mean I had to spend time there. It's only habit that traps you.

In retrospect, it would be a good place to ditch any persistent dream stalkers. Give them something else to chew on and break their fixation on me.
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#11 Brennan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 03:39 AM

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 08 June 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

I would not classify it this way personally because learning has little to do with it. In fact I would say it's more akin to unlearning or, more specifically, a shattering of illusions.

Most individuals tend to think or feel they have a sense of who they are and tend to believe they are more or less happy with that sense. Magicians and occultists are no different and often times we have an inflated sense of who we are because most of us have simply added more illusory armor on top of a whole heap of pre-existing rubbish.* When one actually comes to the threshold of experience that is referred to as "the abyss" in occult literature one is actually at a point of crisis; one's bottom drops out. That sense of "who I am" no longer exists and all that one has learned and attained becomes nothing as one is reduced, in greater or lesser degrees, to a state very similar to a newborn infant. Whatever happens in this state can potentially re-form an individual in a very real way. It's not a learning experience, a flash of insight, a turning point or anything as such. One is imprinted and changed permanently.

* The occult rubbish heap is actually just more armor protecting and disguising very deep-seated injuries and insecurities. Just try to strip it away and see how you start to feel. That feeling will give you a minor taste of what I'm actually talking about. Now go all the way with it. If most magicians and occultists actually did the work they profess then there would actually be less talk of (insert favorite brand of occult belief system here).

Do you know of, or are there ways to intentionally cause this? I would be very, and deeply interesting in them if so. And if you do, but don't want to say so openly, could you please let me know via private messaging? Please?

#12 grbree

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:39 PM

@ Nalyd Khezr Bay
Oh really......well then i have to in the utmost respect say i refuse to believe that, i do believe it must be more challenging than that ,if simply because that would make it greatly boring and then this shouldn't even be tha name of the subforum.

@TheCusp
Your description sounds like my negative polarity of fire where all the destructive energy of fire is in existence, a very self destructive area if not handled in the right ways.

@ChaosTech
Could you elaborate a bit more on that last part? Existence is quite relative, do u mean the boundarys of the ALL? Or the existence of a moment such as time? How about the existence of matter or consciousness?
He who can surpass death so will conquer life.

It is what it is.

#13 Brennan

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:48 AM

View Postgrbree, on 17 June 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

@ Nalyd Khezr Bay
Oh really......well then i have to in the utmost respect say i refuse to believe that, i do believe it must be more challenging than that ,if simply because that would make it greatly boring and then this shouldn't even be tha name of the subforum

Don't diss it until you've done it, as, once you've done it... it will seem anything but boring.

#14 grbree

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:28 AM

A tragedy of the heart, to know your beloved was messing around,manipulating you, stealing lying and cheating.
To be torn from the arms of your all powerful loving always knows best mother by the police be cause you were with her when she was caught shoplifting.
Being tasked with the wellbeing of your grandmother who has dementia when you are 13.
Alwaus having lived in the lap luxury then your grandma dies and your mother keeps spending the rent on crack, so now your sleeping in a car with no gasoline for great in the middle of winter.

Theres 4 of my triggers for the abyss you have described, if you are correct Brennan than i cam safely say it is voyage made much easier with every trip.

He who can surpass death so will conquer life.

It is what it is.

#15 Kuroyagi

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:45 AM

Maybe it's more about the shattering of all conceptions you had about yourself, that can be triggered partly by such extreme outer circumstances; your personality will be dissolved and then put together in a 'simulacrum' of higher energetic frequency. The struggle-aspect of that personality against its quasi shamanic dissolution is maybe the demon Choronzon, so nothing bad in and of itself only in context with a certain mystical state or aim.

Does anyone of you know whether the concept of the Abyss in connection with the Tree was invented by Crowley, or have there been other (Jewish?) theorists- and practitioners- who also had thought about it before?

There are many other takes and modifications, of course, like that every single sephira has it own Abyss or that 'simple' rites of passage à la van Genep would also already be Abyss-experiences...also when one skries or works with the Tree in certain aspects as a holistic glyph one can maybe shortly recognize the A. by a little bump or not at all or dance over it and not be affected by it as long as one doesn't dwell in/on it.

Edited by Kuroyagi, 18 June 2014 - 09:54 AM.


#16 MagiAwen

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:11 AM

My personal take on all of this will probably cause a problem....so I'll just put this here for anyone who would like to read it because it's interesting.

http://hermetic.com/norton/abyss2.htm

Edited by MagiAwen, 18 June 2014 - 11:12 AM.

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#17 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 06:15 PM

Thanks MagiAwen- Benjamin Rowe's point of view is always interesting. It sheds some light on what I experienced. The view of the abyss that he describes at the beginning, and identifies as Crowley's interpretation, is obviously what the author of Master of the Temple and the creator of my advert sncerely believe as a matter of faith. I believed it too, though I didn't identify it as a Crowleyan belief, and because of that I saw the same symbols that they did. It is well known that people of particular religious beliefs will see the symbols of their belief in mystical visions and meditation, often independently of one another.

#18 grbree

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:18 PM

@magiawen
That is a near parallel to when i first loss my mother, back when i was 9 Christian and only had a vague interest in 'demons", 4 years later i guess i can only describe it as 'waking up' to well everything, my 13th bday i got online and rooted thru Google until i found the archives of LKoS i read it and understood it really understood it and saw that it was dramtic charade well evocation as it put it, the version i read had no mention of invocation, which is why for the first time i ever dipped into the occult not only did i understand and criticize i formulated my own method a few hours later a way to use my "soul" and merge it withanother by vibrating the energy of the entity, which would then act like a projector of the energy ( unexpectedly turning to evocation).

Now if the definition you and Brennan have given is correct, then a act of unknown transcendence had taken place, which to change my definition 'crossing the abyss" is in so much ,without training or direct intentions, a way to learn if anything because the lifelong misconceptions and habits you have been minddyed with are now gone in short, it allows one to see the truth of all.
He who can surpass death so will conquer life.

It is what it is.

#19 z0b

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:31 PM

I is simply a space that is what you bring to it and with you we find the best way to cross it is to already know where you wish to be then go in a sense cross it without crossing it.

#20 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:19 PM

View Postgrbree, on 17 June 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

@ Nalyd Khezr Bay
Oh really......well then i have to in the utmost respect say i refuse to believe that, i do believe it must be more challenging than that ,if simply because that would make it greatly boring and then this shouldn't even be tha name of the subforum.
I find this reply somewhat laughable because you seem to agree with others here who have said almost identical things as my post implies, just differently or a little more metaphorically. It may be that you and I are talking about different things altogether. I am talking about the subject that MagiAwen's link refers to (which is a good assessment of the experience from a particular perspective) and you seem to be referring more to the overall focus of this sub-forum; all the stupid trappings of Satanism and the oft-misunderstood "left-hand path". This sub-forum is not really aptly named in my opinion but that's another subject for another time.

To be honest, I was trying to make plain an experience that is often glossed over with half-understood metaphors. For example, Crowley refers to one who has taken the "Oath of the Abyss" as a "Babe of the Abyss" (both code words for an aspirant who has presumably done the degree work up to Exempt Adept and decided to step into the "abyss" experience consciously) and you may notice that I stated that the experience puts one in a state close to infancy (a state of "imprint vulnerability"). In that sense "Babe of the Abyss" can be taken somewhat literally. The experience, even though potentially earth shattering, is actually a little more down to earth than occultists would like to have it. I guess for you that would be "boring" though.

If you really want to get at an understanding of this experience I suggest looking further into what "imprint vulnerability" means and implies (and what actions put one there) as well as looking into the various stages (or trials) in the making of the "future shaman" (see Mircea Eliade's interpretations of the subject).

Edited by Nalyd Khezr Bey, 19 June 2014 - 11:22 PM.






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