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The Spiders


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#1 Brennan

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:05 PM



The other night I found this black widow female making a web near my stove ( my stove is outside ). On closer inspection, it appears she had been there for some time due to the amount of other bugs and spiders she had collected. So I showed my Mom because I figured she would think it was cool, which she did, but she also wanted to kill it.

Normally the thought of killing a spider or other bug doesn't have much effect on me. I've killed them too, but in this instance I had an almost overwhelming sense of bad juju, like, if that particular spider were killed then bad things.

I did as much researxh on spiders as I could. What I found were a collection of stories about spider stole fire from the East and various creation myths. I even went against my typical rail against those "see what spiritual significance (animal here) has" and read a few of them, but I couldn't find anything that could explain that ominous feeling.

My hypothesis are that 1) Black Widow is some kind of protector, 2) Black Widow are somehow 'protected', 3) it was That Spider in particular, 4) in one fashion or another, killing that spider would have negatively influenced my current endeavors.

#2 Brennan

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 04:07 PM

(cont.)

5) something that hasn't occurred to me/insufficient data.

What do you folks think?

-Fin.

#3 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:14 PM

Ellis is supposed to be a black widow spider. I do not want to keep talking about Ellis just because I'm interested in her; I realise that most other members are probably not interested in the same things as me. But it is relevant because after having some contact with Ellis , such as reading about her, people sometimes see her in a dream as a black widow spider and they often also see a larger number of spiders in the earthly environment. There is frequently a feeling that you must not harm any spider that appears because the contact is more successful if you do not harm the spider. When I posted something about Ellis on another forum with a picture of her sigil, a few days later someone on the forum reported dreaming about a black widow spider and she said she felt it was a sign that something wonderful was going to happen in her life.

Of course it presents a problem if the spider is both a black widow and a physical one, not a dream. There is the fear that if you do not kill it someone vulnerable could be bitten by it and poisoned. I haven't come across any cases of this and of what people were advised to do. Just off the top of my head, maybe trap it and take it away? I always do that with any spider I find indoors, but where I live we do not have poisonous spiders, so I don't know how I would react to that.

#4 Brennan

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 05:53 PM



Oh, that's what I did. She is now (hopefully) joyfully trolloping through the woods near here.

I do not believe it is an Ellis-ian connection; when I first met her a number of years ago, she appeared to me as a stately lady on a classy wooden throne in a sunny clearing. It was quite beautiful, her red summer dress against the browns and greens. Since then, while I have been more aware of spiders, our contact has diminished. I do not use the linking sigil and even at the time, I rarely used it for more than a point of meditation.

I mean, while it may be a rekindling of that connection due to the recent explorations of the L.S. on this forum, Im inclined to doubt it. But I'll check it out.



#5 z0b

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:41 PM

I have a very strong connection to arachnids they are very powerful spiritually. Keep in mind just cause the thing in question had the vessel of a black widow spider that does not mean that is what you encountered.

#6 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 07:28 PM

View PostBrennan, on 20 May 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:


I mean, while it may be a rekindling of that connection due to the recent explorations of the L.S. on this forum, Im inclined to doubt it. But I'll check it out.

I respect your wish to be objective and to consider all possibilities. However I feel I might have under-emphasised the importance of the 'don't hurt the spider which appears ' part of it. That instruction is actually quite a big deal, and it seemed to me that this was the part you were most intrigued and puzzled by, why you felt it was so important not to hurt the spider.

A couple of weeks ago I was talking online to someone here about a spider that had bitten him, and joking about it being Ellis. I stopped to tidy up some items, and I opened the window and threw out some hair from a hairbrush, then closed it again. Just think,in some cultures they would never do that in case a witch picked up the hair! Anyway I did it. I returned to the conversation, and suddenly a spider that looked very like a black widow hoisted itself out of my sleeve. It ran across my hand, then across the dressing table and then worst of all.....vanished somewhere in the room. Now I knew the drill "don't harm the spider that appears," so there was no need for an inexplicable sense of dread like you had, I just knew I wouldn't harm it. Except that I checked a picture of a black widow just to make sure it wasn't. As it wasn't a real black widow I went to sleep in the room: yes, it could have jumped onto my face but I took the chance. I still don't know where it went after that.

#7 Imperial Arts

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 12:29 AM

In Vegas we had widow spiders everywhere, and it's just something you learn to accept as part of the hostile climate. I was bitten once, reaching into a box full of rocks and machine parts in a garage, but there is no real risk for an adult. It made me feel like an angry squirrel was desperately trying to gnaw his way out of my belly. We imported some brown cellar spiders and it virtually eliminated the widows indoors, on the trade-off of having cellar spiders everywhere.

Black widows make interesting pets if you have a supply of crickets and other small bugs for their food. I don't have any suggestions for the occult significance of finding your critter, but wanted to chime-in that there is no strong reason to kill them for being eight-legged and within 100 feet of a human dwelling.
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#8 Tenebrae

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 01:12 AM

Well, I consider them to be sacred...living embodiments of darkness; they're manipulative, artistic, beautiful, and venomous. I've always considered the web weaving spiders to be of a darker nature, but especially widows. Along with them, venomous serpents and octopi for similar but slightly different reasons. While spiders have an elegance about them, they represent fear to most...fear and manipulation in my opinion. Venomous serpents are sleek, elegant, and deadly...a very seductive sort of feel. Octopi...what better representation of obscure knowledge than an octopus? They're a create we still don't fully understand and only get more bizarre when we discover new facts about them.

Those animals form a little trinity in my beliefs.

Edited by Tenebrae, 21 May 2014 - 01:16 AM.

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#9 Brennan

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:13 AM

View PostImperial Arts, on 21 May 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

In Vegas we had widow spiders everywhere, and it's just something you learn to accept as part of the hostile climate. I was bitten once, reaching into a box full of rocks and machine parts in a garage, but there is no real risk for an adult. It made me feel like an angry squirrel was desperately trying to gnaw his way out of my belly. We imported some brown cellar spiders and it virtually eliminated the widows indoors, on the trade-off of having cellar spiders everywhere.

Black widows make interesting pets if you have a supply of crickets and other small bugs for their food. I don't have any suggestions for the occult significance of finding your critter, but wanted to chime-in that there is no strong reason to kill them for being eight-legged and within 100 feet of a human dwelling.

That was something I was considering! I figured that if I felt sufficiently about it to make sure that not only it lived, but that it lived someplace comfortable and where it could raise a cute little family then devour its mate, maybe I should keep her. As it stands I don't have anywhere solid to base a terrarium and I read that black widows have poor eye-sight but, being a spider, is supremely sensitive to vibration.

When I do have a solid place though, I'll probably get a terrarium and next time I find a black widow (should I feel so moved again), she'll become a special buddy of mine. With bioluminescent mushroom logs, because spiders habe swag, yo.


Tenebrae:

I have somewhat of an attraction to snakes and octopii as well, but more-so snakes. And thank you for sharing that with me. I can see how the B.W. could epitomize certain aspects of darkness.. esp. its seductive qualities. I mean, as far as spiders go, the B.W. has a very nice form. And they devour their mates; this could also be said of certain relationships that can exist with darkness.

Sherri: That pretty much is the bread and butter of it. I'm curious aboit that particular reaction, as they're rather uncommon with me, though it seems entirely unlikely for me to find any sort of answer or reason behind it.

Edited by Brennan, 21 May 2014 - 04:56 AM.


#10 RoseRed

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:13 PM

Having seen the damage done by a black widow to an acquaintances face (it bit her while she was sleeping) - they're not welcome in my home. They can hang out outside of it all they like. Over the last decade we pretty much came to an understanding. Stay outside and I won't kill you. Truthfully, they weren't welcome before that but after seeing the damage - I offer no quarter inside of my dwelling for anything that bites, stings or has venom.

The house spiders that don't bite - they can hang out in the dark corners and on the porches to keep the other bugs out.
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#11 Tenebrae

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:54 PM

View PostBrennan, on 21 May 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

Tenebrae:

I have somewhat of an attraction to snakes and octopii as well, but more-so snakes. And thank you for sharing that with me. I can see how the B.W. could epitomize certain aspects of darkness.. esp. its seductive qualities. I mean, as far as spiders go, the B.W. has a very nice form. And they devour their mates; this could also be said of certain relationships that can exist with darkness.

Indeed, many lovely little reflections.

View PostRoseRed, on 21 May 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Having seen the damage done by a black widow to an acquaintances face (it bit her while she was sleeping) - they're not welcome in my home. They can hang out outside of it all they like. Over the last decade we pretty much came to an understanding. Stay outside and I won't kill you. Truthfully, they weren't welcome before that but after seeing the damage - I offer no quarter inside of my dwelling for anything that bites, stings or has venom.

The house spiders that don't bite - they can hang out in the dark corners and on the porches to keep the other bugs out.

Black Widows are extremely shy creatures that stay in their web...it's very unlikely that your friend suffered a bite from a Black Widow in the face while sleeping unless this was outside next to a woodpile that she rolled into. Only the males roam, and they're harmless to humans.

https://www.youtube....h?v=i4u6SEZlbPs

Lots of videos on youtube with people handling them. This guy goes further and handles a Brown Recluse and Black Widow simultaneously. Brown Recluses are much more likely to wander across you while sleeping...but even they are really shy creatures. A family lived in a home for almost a year and collected over a thousand spiders that they wanted to identify, turns out they were all Brown Recluses...they had an infestation and never realized how many venomous creatures they were sleeping with each and every night,

As for your friend, I don't know what bit her because I'm not sure what species you have around there...but unless she smashed it and found the corpse, I am about 90% sure it wasn't a Black Widow. They build their webs close to the ground because their primary prey is ground insects like roaches, crickets, etc...and rarely do they leave an established web unless forced to. Many venomous spiders cause similar results...which leaves doctors just throwing a name out there because, quite simply, they don't know and the patient wants to. Saying, "Ah, it's a Black Widow and you'll be fine." is better than saying, "We're not sure what bit you, but you'll be okay."

Edited by Tenebrae, 21 May 2014 - 04:10 PM.

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#12 Imperial Arts

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:45 PM

A black widow is about as eager to bite you as you are to go beat up a horny male lion that hasn't eaten in a week. The bite leaves little or no mark, and signs of being bitten only show up much later. You get severe abdominal cramps, skin turns a strange color, and it's not too much worse than a hangover. They can give you an antidote, but it makes you more susceptible to rattlesnake bites, so it is not recommended even in the rare cases where it is available.

Tissue damage is more indicative of recluse spiders, or Arizona Brown spiders. I had one of those bite my face and the hole is still there, after the tissue rotted off. That's what I get for swatting at things on my face while I sleep. Even recluse spiders are relatively harmless as house guests - my family when I was a little kid had hundreds of them, everywhere, and none ever bit anyone.
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#13 Brennan

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 11:32 PM

I don't understand why anyone would even want an antivenom; by being bit, the body produces its own immune response which raises a person's tolerance to that venom. That is actually one way antivenoms are produced, by subjecting little creatures to non-lethal doses of venom and harvesting their immunal response chemicals.

As an update on the Topic At Large:

I have discovered the aversion itself was not due particularly to that spider. The response itself was/is a neat little (and unanticipated) side effect of a current project.

#14 Qaexl

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 07:02 PM

There's one spider spirit, that's Spider from which there are many emanations which would include the Black Widow, the Brown Recluse, the Tarantula, etc with each species manifesting a particular aspect of Spider medicine. Grandmother Spider is an incredible teacher.

Black Widow, in particular, carries a fierce transformational / transmutational medicine. There's a whole chapter on the Black Widow in a book that, well, it's in my library and I'm not home right now. The author actually went around collecting Black Widows as a kid. The venom is apparently one of the most painful you can experience, though it is it not as fatal as the reputation made it out to be.

That kind of an ordeal is not for everyone. I had talked to a lady who got bitten when she was five. Since she was bitten, her precognition started blossoming. Her ability to empathize with other beings improved (there are very few things as painful as what she went through). She currently has some health issues, though it is also moving her to seek out teachings and practices to manage it, instead of half-assing her way through things. It'll lead her to developing herself in ways that would not have happened had she not been initiated by Spider. She's never blamed the Black Widow, does not feel resentful, and does not have lingering aversions to spiders in general.

I want to note, she didn't go out seeking the Black Widow. Spider chose her. They generally leave you alone if you are respectful and you leave them alone. In many ways, though the experience has been intense and she has ongoing issues, I can tell it has also been a blessing. In that way, it's similar to developing a relationship with one of the feminine face of the Divine, like Kali or Durga.

Since moving to Arizona, I've come across the Black Widow often. One had made it's home at my place. She didn't like it that I put a sign for the benefit of some house guests, "Beware the Black Widow" and has since disappeared. I saw another one living under the porch. (Same one? I have no idea). There was one that deliberately showed herself to my companion as we're walking up a street one night. We stared at her, admiring the hourglass marking.





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