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Dream Walker Sightings


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#1 TheCusp

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:25 AM

Who are the Dream Walkers? Beats the hell out of me.

There's all kinds of stories floating around about councils and light and dark groups battling each other, but I've never seen anything to substantiate that. What I have seen is instances of very skilled lucid dreamers showing up in people's dreams. I'm not talking your average "bag of tricks" lucid dreamers, these people display mastery of true dream control, often to the bewilderment of the dreamers they visit.

This thread over on ATS is a perfect example.

http://www.abovetops...hread985721/pg1

The OP sounds like a competent lucid dreamer, and I can totally relate to meeting an anomaly which resists all attempts at control

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So I harnessed the exact same energy I used to crumble that hallway, radiated it through the study, and tried to use it to sweep him into oblivion.

Only, against him that light had no effect.

This was unlike anything I’d ever before experienced in the lucid dreamscape. There was no sensation of interaction, as when effectuating typical changes in reality. There was no sense of counter-resistance as there was when combating a lesser negative entity like that doll.

The light just washed over the Dreammaster as though no part of it had touched him, as though he was an immutable part of the dream, an entity utterly beyond my ability to control.

Determined, I tried again and again, but without any success. Patiently he endured those attempts, as though trying to show me over him I had no power. But eventually he must have grown bored, because he simply drifted up to the top of the room and perched in the alcove of an upper _

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But this was something I’ve never before seen. Normally everything in the lucid dreamscape is mutable, but this guy couldn’t be touched... not by me, at least.


This invulnerability seems impressive to the uninitiated, but really it's just basic competence with the first rule of dream control. Everything requires your attention to exist.
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#2 Atridr

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:29 AM

I don't know that much about dream control, but in general there exists a definite difference between the power and ability of real magicians vs. people who just study magick and other occult phenomena. Castaneda explains this difference quite well in the "Second Ring of Power". What Castaneda calls "becoming a formless warrior" is in my opinion just another word for the death of ego. And after the ego dies, quite a lot of power is released for magical purposes.

In practice, the difference between those who have become formless and those who haven't is akin to a difference between gods and mortals. Human magicians may wield power, but formless beings are pure power.

#3 z0b

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:40 AM

Yes there are lots of more skilled people and beings then you cusp hell I even get dream walked and you no even with me allowing people in to try they risk death by heart attack or worse.Many are just waiting to see who will be worth bothering with or influencing for there agendas or who is likely to in the future cause them trouble and then stomp them out.

#4 RoseRed

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:58 PM

The OP in that thread didn't assume it was a human he was attacking. He also jumped into a knee-jerk attack.

Why the assumption that whatever was unaffected by his attempts grew bored? It floated up, hung out and observed the rest of the dream. That doesn't sound like boredom. As far as attention - even after he stopped paying attention the thing remained and continued to observe.

You're assuming that it was a human better skilled at lucid dreaming because you had a similar interaction. That's a dangerous assumption especially when combined with such certainty about another persons dream.
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#5 TheCusp

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:12 PM

View PostAtridr, on 04 December 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

I don't know that much about dream control, but in general there exists a definite difference between the power and ability of real magicians vs. people who just study magick and other occult phenomena. Castaneda explains this difference quite well in the "Second Ring of Power". What Castaneda calls "becoming a formless warrior" is in my opinion just another word for the death of ego. And after the ego dies, quite a lot of power is released for magical purposes.

In practice, the difference between those who have become formless and those who haven't is akin to a difference between gods and mortals. Human magicians may wield power, but formless beings are pure power.

Can't argue that. Still not sure about permanent ego death, but attention is power, and most of our attention is being used by the ego, which is made up of mostly useless archetypal structures, or forms.

I wouldn't say these dream walkers are formless. Forms are the way the interact. I attack them by throwing a form at them. If that form catches their attention, their attention conforms to the shape of that though tform, the shape of the archetype. You could say they display formlessness in their seeming invulnerability, since they are able to avert their attention from coming to rest on that structure.

They use forms in return, and they are super effective against those of us who are not used to resisting them. One of them would always assume the role of an interrogator/torturer, which is brilliant because people are conditioned to submit to authority figures.

View Postz0b, on 04 December 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Yes there are lots of more skilled people and beings then you cusp hell I even get dream walked and you no even with me allowing people in to try they risk death by heart attack or worse.Many are just waiting to see who will be worth bothering with or influencing for there agendas or who is likely to in the future cause them trouble and then stomp them out.

They don't seem poised to teach, but neither do the seem intent on harm. I'm sure they could cause real harm if they so choose.

View PostRoseRed, on 04 December 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

The OP in that thread didn't assume it was a human he was attacking. He also jumped into a knee-jerk attack.

Why the assumption that whatever was unaffected by his attempts grew bored? It floated up, hung out and observed the rest of the dream. That doesn't sound like boredom. As far as attention - even after he stopped paying attention the thing remained and continued to observe.

You're assuming that it was a human better skilled at lucid dreaming because you had a similar interaction. That's a dangerous assumption especially when combined with such certainty about another persons dream.

He didn't assume it was, but I am 100% certain it was. It got bored with the futile attacks after showing off. That vanity plus the very human wandering of attention is unmistakable. The non-human things never waiver.
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#6 RoseRed

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:02 PM

Vanity? It certainly didn't show up in a vain form.
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#7 TheCusp

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:16 PM

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as though trying to show me over him I had no power

Subtle little displays of ego like that. If something demonic wanted to show that you had no power over it, it wouldn't be so subtle and fleeting. It would beat you over the head with it and not let up. They are too imperfect to be anything other than human.

Edited by TheCusp, 04 December 2013 - 02:18 PM.

“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#8 z0b

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:18 PM

Your wrong in assuming nonhuman beings don't show off or like to play the difference is they don't think like us cause there not human.

#9 z0b

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:26 PM

Man you are assuming cause you don't no whatever it is wants or what its goals are you should take from this experience the fact you don't know and work on protecting your self better in warfare your opponent probes the enemies defenses often to control your thinking then almost all you future actions will then be predictable to it then it does not need to use its power to use you it will let you do all the work for it.

#10 TheCusp

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:32 PM

View Postz0b, on 04 December 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Yes there are lots of more skilled people and beings then you cusp hell I even get dream walked and you no even with me allowing people in to try they risk death by heart attack or worse.

Actually, I only tried remote influencing your dreams. I haven't been getting enough sleep to try to get into your dreams directly. My influencing attempts are clumsy and still lack a solid base, but I'm much more adept at dealing with stuff directly in a dream. I'll find a way to show up and give you a dream wedgie yet.

View Postz0b, on 04 December 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Your wrong in assuming nonhuman beings don't show off or like to play the difference is they don't think like us cause there not human.

I'm saying that difference in non human thinking makes them a lot better at working with attention than we are. That difference in style and skill is noticeable, and completely different than how most humans operate. I'm not saying they don't show off, I'm saying there is a difference in how they show off.

Edited by TheCusp, 04 December 2013 - 02:36 PM.

“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#11 z0b

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:44 PM

Ego man it makes no difference to me if you can good for you.To me it will just mean your theory of attention has some merit other wise I could care less.You seem like a nice enough fellow and I don't want to see you get hurt cause you seem to have potential but you should take this recent event as a sign you gained somethings attention it was bound to happen but you won't have a chance if you don't get your ego from doing all your enemies work for them.

#12 TheCusp

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 03:00 PM

View Postz0b, on 04 December 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

all you future actions will then be predictable to it then it does not need to use its power to use you it will let you do all the work for it.

I know what you mean. That's how I scored my first victory against these guys when I was fighting them.

We fell into a pattern where he would just bat everything I threw at him away with his arm, smashing it to bits. We'd been at it for awhile, so what I did was summon a giant statue head out of the ground. This thing was so big, it was taking him forever to smash it. Suddenly the guy who has been hell bent on trolling my every sleeping moment is completely focused on something else instead of me.

I walked off, sat under a tree and watched him for a bit before leaving him to it. I'm well aware of those kinds of pitfals and am used to dealing with them.

Edited by TheCusp, 04 December 2013 - 03:02 PM.

“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#13 z0b

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 03:37 PM

Let you think you won then you don't need to do anything when in reality maybe that is what it wanted all along and it now knows exactly what to expect from you and that you will likely do in the future.

#14 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:12 PM

I see that we have taken the previous conversation about astral battles to a new level- and with recent accounts too, as in three days ago. Well, no-one's accounts could possibly be older than mine. I would like to say something about 'becoming a formless warrior'. Would you say the formless warrior is inhabiting a body higher than the astral body?

There are said to be planes above the astral plane: exactly how many depends on the tradition. There are systems with seven planes and systems with four, as for example the four realms of the Kabbalah aziluth, beriah, yezira and assiya. I prefer the models with four planes. The point of this is, I once had a dream in which I was thrown out of my astral body and into a higher body. The higher body seemed to be floating above and slightly to the side of my astral body, which was inert due to being empty. To anyone who was astral I would have appeared to be formless. It's the equivalent of descriptions of the astral body rising out of the physical body and floating above it, with the person becoming like a formless ghost and their physical body being empty.

I can't find this in my journal but it must have been one of those combat situations because I remember it was in the days when I worshipped Krishna and I had a form of Krishna standing beside me, which the enemy then began to pummel! I actually said "leave my Deity alone" ! It must have been only a thought form Deity because it didn't defend itself. Later I experienced returning to my astral body, and then returning to my physical body. The position I was in must be what the formless warriors do- agreed?
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#15 TheCusp

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:41 PM

View Postz0b, on 04 December 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Let you think you won then you don't need to do anything when in reality maybe that is what it wanted all along and it now knows exactly what to expect from you and that you will likely do in the future.

Maybe, but if they're that good, there's not really much I can do about that. All I can do is my best to separate what I truly want from outside interference. I know when I'm outclassed. I've found attacking powerful entities to be a waste, since I need all the focus I can muster just to keep myself together.

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 04 December 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

There are said to be planes above the astral plane: exactly how many depends on the tradition. There are systems with seven planes and systems with four, as for example the four realms of the Kabbalah aziluth, beriah, yezira and assiya. I prefer the models with four planes. The point of this is, I once had a dream in which I was thrown out of my astral body and into a higher body. The higher body seemed to be floating above and slightly to the side of my astral body, which was inert due to being empty. To anyone who was astral I would have appeared to be formless. It's the equivalent of descriptions of the astral body rising out of the physical body and floating above it, with the person becoming like a formless ghost and their physical body being empty.

What use are these different planes and different bodies? I often hear those distinctions being made, but I don't see how they serve any practical purpose.

Sometimes I don't have a body of any kind. Where does that fit?

Edited by TheCusp, 04 December 2013 - 08:43 PM.

“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#16 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:30 PM

Probably our experiences are shaped by what we believe in. When I had my experience I believed in the physical, astral and causal bodies , and you believe the choice is between a formless state with no body at all and having form. Those who live on a higher plane might choose to see themselves in a body of that plane.
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https://candyrayblog...occult-stories/

#17 RoseRed

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:49 AM

I'm actually a little confused here. Are you saying that you have one astral body and need a different body to go to different planes than the astral?

The only difference that I've found is more of a difference in vibrational frequency than actually having to switch bodies. Or maybe I'm not getting what you're saying.
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#18 Curious Cat

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:48 AM

I don't really feel these sorts of things are other people trying to screw with others. Why would a stranger look to mess with someone they do not know? If a person was able to dream walk, it seems to me that they would want to visit people that they know. There seems like very little reason to visit random strangers. It would be a complete waste of time.

I'm not sure if you have read Robert Waggoner's book, Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self. In the book, Waggoner writes that there were times when the dream was greater than him and would completely defy his attempts to change it. I think that this is the more likely scenario of what is being described.

#19 monsnoleedra

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:31 AM

View PostCurious Cat, on 05 December 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

I don't really feel these sorts of things are other people trying to screw with others. Why would a stranger look to mess with someone they do not know? If a person was able to dream walk, it seems to me that they would want to visit people that they know. There seems like very little reason to visit random strangers. It would be a complete waste of time.

I'm not sure if you have read Robert Waggoner's book, Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self. In the book, Waggoner writes that there were times when the dream was greater than him and would completely defy his attempts to change it. I think that this is the more likely scenario of what is being described.

From some things I've been introduced to Dream Walkers in Native American lore do so specifically to take control and manipulate a person. A stranger can be as valuable as a key person if you can use them to achieve a desired goal. The Tsagli (sp) have some very specific chants and prayers for use against them and the only way to defeat them is to kill the walker in real life.
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#20 Atridr

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:06 AM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 04 December 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

I see that we have taken the previous conversation about astral battles to a new level- and with recent accounts too, as in three days ago. Well, no-one's accounts could possibly be older than mine. I would like to say something about 'becoming a formless warrior'. Would you say the formless warrior is inhabiting a body higher than the astral body?



In my opinion, it goes like this: Normally, human beings inhabit or are possessed by their astral bodies, in other words, their egos. They identify themselves so strongly to certain fixed patterns of behavior and to a certain mental image they have of themselves that majority of their energy is automatically channeled to uphold that image and those patterns. In so doing, they rob themselves of their real magical nature.

Now, we as magicians all more or less strive to release that power, so that it could be used for other purposes. Becoming a formless being is a slow process of stripping away the patterns that make us what we are as human beings, and in so doing, becoming what we truly are all the time. Instead of being individuals with consciousness, we become consciousnesses which wear and use our physical, ethereal, astral and spiritual bodies just like mundane men wear clothes or use material instruments.

So no, formless warriors don't actually inhabit a body higher than the astral body, unless you want to think the formless and infinite expanse of potential and power as some kind of "body". Bear in mind, that there are higher bodies than the astral one, and even they are just tools for the will of the formless one.

Before that point, all that we experience is just dream and sleep.





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