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What Puts It In A Child's Head?


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#1 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:19 AM

Probably like most individuals I've had a fascination with dreams for most of my life. I've heard or read (and even come up with) probably all possible theories about them at this point. And strangely, even though I delved deep into dream magics (oneiric sorcery) for several years from 2005 to around the end of 2009 (and one last full-on operation in the summer of 2010 which officially ended my dream experiments), I must admit that I feel I've gotten no closer to understanding the nature and/or full function of dreams. I can speculate about them all day and night but none of it really holds up because as soon as I think I have a grasp on a function I have some totally contradicting type of dream. Most of the time I treat them like an oracle which is probably what most with an eye for it do. I'm only convinced of one thing regarding dreams: no one has any definitive answers to account for them.

One topic that has kept me busy speculating are childhood dreams. First let me point out the more common theory that dreams are a patchwork of what we have experienced in our day to day lives. To a certain extent, as an adult, I can understand this because I frequently have dreams (of the more mundane quality) that I can easily trace to events that have happened recently or something that I talked about with someone or something similar. However, my personal recollection of childhood dreams goes against that grain. The most vivid dreams I remember from childhood are those of falling from the top of skyscrapers and waking up just before hitting the ground. What day to day experience of a 2-3 year old (that's about the age I remember these kinds of dreams) is something like that based on? That is, how could I have had such dreams if I have no context in waking life for such an experience? I had never fallen off of a building (and still haven't) to even know what it looks like to do so. I didn't live in a city at that age either so I didn't even have any experience of skyscrapers to even be able to imagine what falling from one would be like. So not only why such a dream, but how?

I also had frequent dreams at that same age of being positioned kind of facing down but forward in some sort of capsule* and travelling extremely fast while pushing through some sort of field of liquid. While experiencing one of these dreams I would feel like my whole body is very concentrated and shooting through something so fast. It would happen in bursts. This kind of dream is harder to explain which makes it even more curious as to what day to day experience of a 2-3 year old it's based on. I can't even think of anything aside from perhaps attributing them to "birth memories".

I could list several more but I think that kind of makes my point. Does anyone else here have recollections of childhood dreams that make you wonder what the hell put those images and/or experiences in your subconscious at an age when you haven't even acquired enough experiences to make much out of? Thinking about it now it almost seemed like I experienced more in dreams as a child than I did in waking life, or my memories gravitate more towards the dreams I had than anything that "really happened".

Just rambling. Discuss.

* Years later around the age of 9-10 when I saw the film Tron those light-cycles gave me flashbacks of these old dreams. The light-cycles are a fairly good approximation of what was going on in my dreams at least as far as the light-cycle itself is concerned and how one is positioned in them as well as it going extremely fast in a very concentrated fashion. My dreams were very dim though and nothing like what the movie looked like.

Edited by Nalyd Khezr Bey, 07 August 2013 - 09:25 AM.


#2 Qryztufre

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:39 AM

Nalyd, don't let me forget to answer this.

#3 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:59 AM

As I mentioned recently in the discussion about nightmares, I believe in the view that dreams are the writing of the previous day's events into the akashic records, and they are written in by means of associative links that create a story. That would be the same for a child as for an adult. The stories are often very bizarre and irrational so that they are difficult to interpret.There was one case I heard about in which it was a straightforward symbolization, or double meaning if you prefer to put it that way; a lady dreamed about a jumper being pulled over her face and said she thought it meant someone was trying to pull the wool over her eyes. It is rarely that obvious though.

You mentioned dreams of falling from a height Nalyd and those are a special case because they can result from the astral body falling back into the physical body and realigning with the acompanying muscle jerk. You might only have moved a few centimetres away in order to create a dream story, and might then suddenly fall back. I don't remember any dreams when I was three or four but I did have a lucid dream when I was seven. I was not well at the time- I'd had a whooping cough inoculation and yet I still got something that the doctors said counted as whooping cough. In the dream I was running around in my school playground in ankle socks and no shoes and I was worrying about it because my mother used to repeat various dire warnings about things you must not do when you are ill, including walking around with no shoes on. When I realised I was dreaming I jumped down into a deep building site on one side of the street in order to wake myself up. You asked where does a child's mind get the idea from and in this case I would say I must have had a subconscious memory of those falling dreams in which you drop back into your body, and that told me that falling was the way to wake up.

I think the astral body can be absolutely anywhere while you are dreaming: a few centimetre away, in the next street, in another country or on a higher plane. You might experience coming back slowly by walking or gliding or flying , or coming back instantaneously. The speed at which you come back doesn't have anything to do with how far away you were in the first place, it has to do with state of consciousness and what ideas are in your mind. All these slow returns and fast returns stay in the memory somewhere and a child or an adult can draw on the memories in subsequent dreams. That may explain some of what you experienced. I liked 'Tron' as well because it was about going into cyberspace and if you did that in a dream it would create a whole other set of memories about varied ways of coming back.

#4 RoseRed

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:18 AM

Nalyd - I'm in no way trying to diminish your dreams but those sound a lot like the old cartoons I used to watch when I was little.
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#5 TheCusp

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:58 AM

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 07 August 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

I'm only convinced of one thing regarding dreams: no one has any definitive answers to account for them.

Hi there, I'm The Cusp. Nice to meet you. You've obviously never read any of my posts before, so I thought I'd introduce myself. The only secret to dreams is that controlling them is magic.

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 07 August 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

The most vivid dreams I remember from childhood are those of falling from the top of skyscrapers and waking up just before hitting the ground. What day to day experience of a 2-3 year old (that's about the age I remember these kinds of dreams) is something like that based on? That is, how could I have had such dreams if I have no context in waking life for such an experience? I had never fallen off of a building (and still haven't) to even know what it looks like to do so. I didn't live in a city at that age either so I didn't even have any experience of skyscrapers to even be able to imagine what falling from one would be like. So not only why such a dream, but how?

Every kid has fallen down from a standing position. Falling is falling, doesn't matter from what height. You know what falling was. The panic of falling just locked your attention onto the idea of falling which extended the fall.

Kids have nightmares involving the archetypes used in spatial relations all the time. At least that's the conclusion I've drawn about night terrors. They are cognitive dissonance in the part of the brain that deals with spatial relations.

The process of archetypal chaining which happens in dreams is no different than how your attention moves about while awake..Everyone is looking for what makes dreams different from waking reality, but it's what they have in common that matters!


View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 07 August 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

I also had frequent dreams at that same age of being positioned kind of facing down but forward in some sort of capsule* and travelling extremely fast while pushing through some sort of field of liquid. While experiencing one of these dreams I would feel like my whole body is very concentrated and shooting through something so fast. It would happen in bursts. This kind of dream is harder to explain which makes it even more curious as to what day to day experience of a 2-3 year old it's based on. I can't even think of anything aside from perhaps attributing them to "birth memories".

Like I said, cognitive dissonance with the archetypes involved with spatial relations. Check out this thread and the descriptions of night terrors it contains. All from early childhood. I get major goosebumps just thinking about that thread.
http://www.dreamview...ver-dreams.html
Be it movement, geometry, sound, what they all have in common is spatial relations. Dreams are just practice using archetypes, and night terrors are just using those archetypes in experimental ways.

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 07 August 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

I would say I must have had a subconscious memory of those falling dreams in which you drop back into your body, and that told me that falling was the way to wake up.

It's not falling back into your body that wakes you up, it's the instability of the death archetype. It's not the falling that wakes you, it's the dying. Your arcehtypes tell you what to do, what should happen in every situation. But nobody knows what happens when you die, so that archetypes is only half baked, incomplete. When your dream tries to follow your reference material to build your dream, but doesn't find any, it crashes. Like a computer program that returns an error, the whole thing crashes and you wake up.

I'm not asking for anyone to believe me about this stuff, I'm asking you try it for yourself. THe more robust and well defined an archetypes is, the more reliable it is to use. The less defined it is, the more likely it will fail, or in the case of the death archetype, fail big time!

Edited by TheCusp, 07 August 2013 - 12:11 PM.

“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#6 Whispers

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 01:56 PM

@TheCusp
I'm trying not to be a dick here, but the way that you start your post feels just like a religious statement. It reminds me of those people that arrive at someones home Sunday Morning, with absolute certainties, and deeply commited to save souls.


http://www.dreamview...ver-dreams.html This is interesting. Perhaps those are archetypes... BUT...
That description is exactly alike some of the experiences of a former member of the late OccultForums, know as PCP. He worked mainly with dream magic, a la Castaneda, and I recall him giving that description. To him those solids, and other geometric figures were what Castaneda describes as inorganic beings.
A very similar description was online, about 12 years ago, regarding the training and evolution of a Siberian Shaman.
One can say that the state in wich a Shaman encounters the spirits is a oneiric state, and perhaps it is.
Hovewer I also recall Ashnook, describing something similar showing up, while he evoked the watcher, fully awake and with open eyes.

I have no idea what those things are, but they travel around a lot.

#7 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 03:53 PM

Now TheCusp, I keep treating you as a fellow dream enthusiast and you keep being competitive with others who study it, pushing your own theories! I do agree with this statement :

Quote: "Everyone is looking for what makes dreams different from waking reality, but it's what they have in common that matters!"

During the time that we are dreaming the texture of the experience feels exactly the same as waking experience. It's the same 'me' doing everything, and the same feeling of being conscious in our surroundings. It is only when we wake up that our minds put a different texture onto it and it feels like a dream to our memory. Then suddenly experiences that we accepted uncritically during the dream appear to be irrational and to belong ot a different order of reality. During the dream jumping off a building made sense and we felt like we were using all our senses normally. I'm just speculating that maybe for a child the wish to wake up could be stronger than it is in an adult because they don't want to study altered states of consciousness, they would rather feel safe, so the seemingly irrational diving from a building or whizzing along in a capsule is what they remember as a way of waking quickly.

That is certainly interesting on that forum where several people remember childhood dreams of geometric shapes, moving slowly and feeling sick, all occurring together.Taking a sample like that is the best way to study it, although no-one seems sure what the phenomenon is exactly.

I still don't believe it is the death archetype that wakes you up when you fall off a building. We were talking about it once before and I said I had often been killed in a dream and remained asleep afterwards. You said that can happen if you have deveoped a strong death archetype, for example by playing video games in which you are repeatedly killed. So what happens if the dreamer is not expecting to be killed? For example in a lucid dream someone might rip you in half and you might be thinking "what a bastard he is for doing that, but it won't kill me." Afterwards you may wake up or you may not . We don't know that a young child is expecting to die after falling off the building, they might not reason like that.

#8 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:57 PM

Yeah that old theory about if you die in a dream you die in real life is total rubbish. I've been killed and/or died in dreams several times over and remained sleeping and experienced it fully.

In the above I am talking about childhood dreams exclusively. How adults dream, at least how I dream as an adult, is different and is not so relevant in this discussion.

TheCusp, I don't usually mess with your dream theory because you don't seem so receptive to having it picked apart and perhaps dismissed and thrown away. You seem too attached to it like it's your personal baby so I don't bother you with it. I'm more than familiar with damned near everything you are on about though; Castaneda, the lucid dreaming stuff, the awareness thing, archetypes, all of it. I've probably gone the whole gamut of models (used them, studied them, made up some of my own, blah, etc.) and none of them, including yours, really say anything that gets us anywhere closer to what is really going on with dreams... at least not to my satisfaction. Like with everything else, some models are relatively more useful than others. My own theory of dreams has an archetypal basis so your stuff is nothing new to me. If you'd really like for me to discuss the stuff with you I can but I don't personally see a point because I happen to somewhat agree with most of it... sort of.

But I see no answer to what really puts these images into a child's subconscious. Perhaps you missed that point in my initial post? I'm curious about where a 2-3 year old child gets full dream scenarios that very unlikely have not actually been experienced in waking life. These days we might be able to attribute it to media overload blasting images everywhere we look so that a 2 year old might just be experiencing more sensory input several times over at that age than I did at that same age in 1974. So I can only speak for myself here. I had dreams about things as a child that had no basis in anything I experienced in waking life at that age. That is my thread topic.

And regarding those geometric shapes, or entoptic phenomena... I have no memories of dreaming geometric shapes as a child. I did always see a grand display of geometric shapes and strange swirls of colours and patterns before going to sleep at night. This is not so common for me these days before sleeping unless I'm really exhausted and/or really work at it. However, it is still common while working certain types of magick like scrying and while doing certain breathing exercises for example. This entoptic phenomena usually precedes an opening of a gateway into other worlds for lack of a better way to put it, almost as though these patterns are actually our seeing through a code that separates our perception from that archetypal world.

And just in case it wasn't clear above... The Tron reference was only to illustrate the description of my dream a little better because those light-cycles were similar. Tron came later in 1982 and has nothing to do with the dreams. The dreams I'm talking about took place probably around 1974-76 give or take. Maybe a little sooner. I know where I lived at the time of having them and I know I didn't live at that location after the age of 4 so these dreams could have taken place any time during my first four years.

Edited by Nalyd Khezr Bey, 07 August 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#9 RoseRed

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:14 PM

Quote

But I see no answer to what really puts these images into a child's subconscious. Perhaps you missed that point in my initial post? I'm curious about where a 2-3 year old child gets full dream scenarios that very unlikely have not actually been experienced in waking life. These days we might be able to attribute it to media overload blasting images everywhere we look so that a 2 year old might just be experiencing more sensory input several times over at that age than I did at that same age in 1974. So I can only speak for myself here. I had dreams about things as a child that had no basis in anything I experienced in waking life at that age. That is my thread topic.

Did your parents have a tv in the house? Can you honestly say that you remember what you were exposed to at 2 years old? Do you remember back that far?
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#10 TheCusp

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:49 PM

View PostWhispers, on 07 August 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

http://www.dreamview...ver-dreams.html This is interesting. Perhaps those are archetypes... BUT...
That description is exactly alike some of the experiences of a former member of the late OccultForums, know as PCP. He worked mainly with dream magic, a la Castaneda, and I recall him giving that description. To him those solids, and other geometric figures were what Castaneda describes as inorganic beings.
A very similar description was online, about 12 years ago, regarding the training and evolution of a Siberian Shaman.
One can say that the state in wich a Shaman encounters the spirits is a oneiric state, and perhaps it is.
Hovewer I also recall Ashnook, describing something similar showing up, while he evoked the watcher, fully awake and with open eyes.

I have no idea what those things are, but they travel around a lot.

I read somewhere that that slow feeling is the feeling of being digested by whatever those things are. That certainly feels right. But the explanation that makes me feel safer is it's just a case of extreme vertigo brought on by crazy use of your spatial relation systems.

BTW, the word shaman isn't used once in any of Castaneda's books.

I don't think they're IBs. Those are described fairly accurately, both as an energy body and as physical interpretations, and never once did it mention any geometric qualities. I think the source of the platonic solids is from constant exposure to them in nature. The more robust an archetype is, the more powerful it is, and they gain power from repetition. We are exposed to the platonic solids expressed in nature so often that those structures probably gain more reinforcement than anything else in our lives we are exposed to. It makes perfect sense to me to use the platonic solids in magical workings because of that tremendous power they must have. How to use them still eludes me.

The Castaneda fans tend to see IBs everywhere. Most often then mistake a "strange" dream characters for an IB. What really happens is the the strangeness or novelty of that dream character draws more attention, making it more powerful. Myself, I've never really seen anything I can be sure of. I suspect strange fusions of concepts, like that weird wasp/dog hybrid thing I saw one night, might be IBs. I like the analogy of building a lego space ship from a medieval lego set, that's how we have to make sense of those things. If not IBs, something that's not me.

I've read A LOT of other people's dreams over the years, and in all that time, I've only ever come across one dream that screamed Inorganic Beings. Guy had never even heard of Castaneda, but in the dream he described, the IBs came off like pushy salesmen. Really scumbag pushy sales tactics. Unrelenting in trying to get him to go live with them, promising to teach him all kinds of amazing stuff. Just spent half an hour trying to find that thread. but it's too far buried. I'll try again, it's a really good one.

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 07 August 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Now TheCusp, I keep treating you as a fellow dream enthusiast and you keep being competitive with others who study it, pushing your own theories!

I have very few peers in my dream studies. That's why I came here. I have more people here who have nothing to do with dreams understand what I'm talking about than in the huge pool of active dreamers over on dreamviews.com. There were a few who got it, and even began teaching it themselves. I can't wait to see what they do with it over the years.

The only difference between there and here is lucid dreamers actually do stuff, so they actually get to see for themselves and verify it works. They are only theories if you haven't tested them out for yourself. And they are easily testable.

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 07 August 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Then suddenly experiences that we accepted uncritically during the dream appear to be irrational and to belong ot a different order of reality.

Tell me about it. Cutting off my own penis seemed like a perfectly normal thing to do. Everyone else was doing it...
(I saw this thing on a tribe who put rocks in their penis, so my dream version of that was cutting to build up scars. Was just a very novel hook)

But how you accept and go along with anything in a dream is problematic. That's obviously the source of hypnotic suggestibility. What few people acknowledge is that we do the same thing wile awake. Everyone just assumes they have free will, but it's actually as rare as lucid moments are in dreams

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 07 August 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

,.. they would rather feel safe, so the seemingly irrational diving from a building or whizzing along in a capsule is what they remember as a way of waking quickly.

Yes, if not death, then extreme disorientation. You know, attention to exist. That is how most dreamers pick up moves, without necessarily knowing the theory behind it.

If I want someone out of my dream, I trip them and shove them into the ground as hard as possible, face first. On the other end of the spectrum, when I want to prevent someone from waking (when I tell them they are in a dream), I'll put my arm around their shoulder and give them a good shake.


View PostSuccubusSherry, on 07 August 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

I still don't believe it is the death archetype that wakes you up when you fall off a building. We were talking about it once before and I said I had often been killed in a dream and remained asleep afterwards. You said that can happen if you have deveoped a strong death archetype, for example by playing video games in which you are repeatedly killed. So what happens if the dreamer is not expecting to be killed? For example in a lucid dream someone might rip you in half and you might be thinking "what a bastard he is for doing that, but it won't kill me." Afterwards you may wake up or you may not . We don't know that a young child is expecting to die after falling off the building, they might not reason like that.

I was just assuming you're falling to your death, my bad. You don't necessarily have to fall to your death, but it's a likely possibility. If you do happen to find yourself on Death Street, be aware the ground beneath your feet may be unstable.

Extreme disorientation could be the culprit as well, but since the waking usually happens at the moment of impact, I blame it on death, which is essentially the same thing. Either your attention follows a path that leads nowhere (death archetype), or the impact of the fall scatters your attention. In either case, the result is the same. Not enough attention left to sustain the dream world.

I always advise brisk movement to stabilize a dream because it implies all the elements of a 3D world and spreads your attention out evenly among them, creating a stable dream environment.

Edited by TheCusp, 08 August 2013 - 12:29 AM.

“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#11 TheCusp

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:33 AM

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 07 August 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

TheCusp, I don't usually mess with your dream theory because you don't seem so receptive to having it picked apart and perhaps dismissed and thrown away. You seem too attached to it like it's your personal baby so I don't bother you with it. I'm more than familiar with damned near everything you are on about though; Castaneda, the lucid dreaming stuff, the awareness thing, archetypes, all of it. I've probably gone the whole gamut of models (used them, studied them, made up some of my own, blah, etc.) and none of them, including yours, really say anything that gets us anywhere closer to what is really going on with dreams... at least not to my satisfaction. Like with everything else, some models are relatively more useful than others. My own theory of dreams has an archetypal basis so your stuff is nothing new to me. If you'd really like for me to discuss the stuff with you I can but I don't personally see a point because I happen to somewhat agree with most of it... sort of.

Say what you want, it won't hurt my feelings. I claim no ownership of this knowledge. I'd feel the same if you said something critical of hands. Everybody has hands. I'm just a guy who appreciates what hands can do. I'm fairly sure I could argue my point against anyone to the point of consensus reality, which by my definition is the point at which people stop giving a shit.

Sometimes I get a little ahead of myself theorizing about the applications before I get a chance to test them, but the basics of what I'm trying to get across are solid.

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 07 August 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

But I see no answer to what really puts these images into a child's subconscious. Perhaps you missed that point in my initial post?

Really? You can't think of any scenarios where the elements for a falling dream might have originated?
Has there ever been a kid who hasn't played the game of repeatedly throwing food on the floor? Learning to walk? Using stairs? A swing? A teeter-totter? Parents tossing the small child into the air and catching him? Daily exposure to gravity? Every archetype you possess is a lego piece. Kids create new things out of the same old lego pieces all the time.

I'm fairly certain my nephew has never seen a car crash, but that doesn't stop him from smashing his trucks into one another.
All the pieces are there. Some pieces just beg to be put together in certain ways.

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 07 August 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I did always see a grand display of geometric shapes and strange swirls of colours and patterns before going to sleep at night.

That reminds me of LSD visuals
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#12 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:46 AM

View PostRoseRed, on 07 August 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Did your parents have a tv in the house? Can you honestly say that you remember what you were exposed to at 2 years old? Do you remember back that far?
Yes I remember that era fairly well, at least beginning somewhere in that age range of at least 2 to 4. I have no linear memory of this age range though. As I mentioned, I know where I was living at that time and up to what age. It was a very large, old brick house with no bathrooms, water source was a cistern with a hand pump in the kitchen sink. We took baths in a metal tub in the kitchen. We did have an old black and white TV but it wasn't common to be watching it. I have a very vivid memory of childhood and can recall a lot from this time period but just not in any linear order. Linear memory does not start for me until we moved from that old house. I am not ruling out that perhaps something I was exposed to could play a part in helping imagine such a visual. However, why a visual of falling from a thirty story skyscraper? Of course I have no clue about how many stories it would have been. All I know is it was high enough to allow a free fall that goes on a while before hitting the ground and I can't recall having even been in the city enough at that age to have the kinds of sensory input to account for this. Why not a dream of falling from the top of something comparable to the large house I was living in at that time which was three stories?

Edited by Nalyd Khezr Bey, 08 August 2013 - 02:49 AM.


#13 wren

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:21 AM

I personally think that sometimes when we dream we get "outside" of time as we normally think of it. I think this enables the "dreams of a past-life" phenomenon, and, if you want a "woo-woo" explanation for your strange childhood dreams, it would do as well as any other.

#14 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:43 AM

View PostTheCusp, on 08 August 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

That reminds me of LSD visuals
Or the onset of a DMT trip which I think is a likely candidate for the "why" of a great deal of the phenomena associated with magical practices, especially when extended periods of deep breathing is involved.

#15 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:21 AM

Something that is relevant to what we've all been saying is that everyone who studies dreams notices that studying dreams changes them. Freud and Jung both found that after they had explained their theories to their patients, the patients eventually started to dream in accordance with the theories. Jung's patients would see mythical figures and mandalas because Jung had spoken to them about these during the therapy sessions. So this happens to us in the modern day as well.

Nalyd if you dreamed many times about falling off the roof of a skyscraper there is another type of dream it could be apart from the astral body falling back into the physical. It could of course be a recurring dream. Those are to do with an unresolved conflict, and we keep on having them so long as it is still unresolved. Possibly the material for the story did come from a previous life, and once it became associated with the conflict it repeated. I used to have a recurring dream in which I was horrified because I had ill-treated some small animals or some fish in a tank. There were all kinds of variations: hampsters in a dark cupboard with no food or water, goldfish getting sloshed into a hot bath and countless others. The worst part was that even when I noticed what was wrong I was unable to put it right. The only explanation I could think of at the time was that it must be something to do with 'neglecting qualities', and now I think it was because I always missed and neglected opportunities even when I knew that is what I was doing. I can't immediately think what conflict falling off a building would be, unless it was about losing your security, where instead of a building being a nurturing home it suddenly becomes a means of throwing you down to the street. I still prefer the explanation that you were trying to wake, and as I said previously that too is about wanting to be safe (in the physical world with your parents).

#16 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostQryztufre, on 07 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Nalyd, don't let me forget to answer this.
Q, don't forget to answer this.

I do appreciate everyone's thoughts here, especially Sherry's sharing, even if I don't always come back and have replies to everything. Just for the record though, like with most of the thread discussions I start, I'm not actually asking for advice or, in the case of this thread, a psycho-analytical interpretation of my childhood dreams (there is actually a separate forum for interpretation). It's cool if that is what you want to do but it's not something I'm in need of. If everyone goes back to the initial post you may notice I simply just throw a couple of personal examples out there so you know what I'm talking about and then ask "Does anyone else here have recollections of childhood dreams that make you wonder what the hell put those images and/or experiences in your subconscious at an age when you haven't even acquired enough experiences to make much out of?" Besides Sherry's posts I'm not really seeing this question taken into consideration so far. So what I'm really interested in hearing from everyone here are accounts of your own childhood dreams that for the most part baffle your reasoning. The theoretical stuff is more than welcome but at least have some personal accounts to back it up.;)

Edited by Nalyd Khezr Bey, 08 August 2013 - 09:27 AM.


#17 wren

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:46 AM

For the most part, I don't remember my childhood, let alone my childhood dreams. When I was in highschool I had dreams of moments that would later come true. They were brief flashes of times in which I was reading manga or really emmersed in conversation.

#18 Whispers

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 08 August 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

So what I'm really interested in hearing from everyone here are accounts of your own childhood dreams that for the most part baffle your reasoning.
My very first memory is part of a dream. I was in a very big room with a screen (later I interpreted it as a cinema). On the screen was projected Mickey Mouse, and instead of noise the the image had a "balloon" where was wriiten in English what he said. I was two going on three. I had never been to the cinema and by then we still didn't have a television (that was bought a few months before the landing on the moon). I only saw a comic book when I was around 5 or 6. And obviously by then I had no idea what English was (I was still trying to learn my mother tongue) and had no clue how to read or write.

View PostTheCusp, on 07 August 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

BTW, the word shaman isn't used once in any of Castaneda's books.
So ? I never said it did. What I said is that that experience is shared by practicioners of different traditions and paradigms, going from nagualism to shamanism and ceremonial magic.

Edited by Whispers, 08 August 2013 - 12:51 PM.


#19 Morrigan

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:50 AM

As a child I had a long running dream. I was alone in a sprawling industrial complex. It was massive, a maze of empty buildings and streets. The entire complex was chromed, shiney new chrome. While individuals structures were unique, everything was a uniformed chrome. The only feature that really stood out was the massive tower with a red blinking light. Everytime I had this dream I searched in vain to find the tower. For years I wandered this complex hunting for the red light. This went on for almost a decade. Then one night I found the building with the tower. It was a squat little building, similar to those occupied by government offices the world over. As I neared it a loud buzzing started, increasing as I opened the door.....
I never had the dream since then.
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#20 ChaosTech

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:22 AM

The subconscious is the beginning of the mysteries.
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For nearly 20 years I meditated on and studied that which has no name, but is absolute, infinite, beyond both small and large. Finally one day I realized the limits of my sentient consciousness. It has all power over whether we are it or dual. There is no choice of the nondual, for choice is dual. Just be, live, do what you will, with love and wisdom. As Hermes said, in a time yet unborn, all shall be one, and one shall be all. True enlightenment has nothing to do with attainment. It's an inner peace, that there is nothing to be done, I call it surrender to the Spirit.





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