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I Keep Killing Myself Or Getting Killed In My Dreams


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#21 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:42 PM

I mentioned Jung in connection with individuation, the way he believed that you integrate the shadow when you attain individuation. In fact when I studied Jung it was part of studying dreams and I only read some of his work like 'Memories, Dreams and Reflections' and part of his writings on alchemy. I expect he said much more about the shadow in his books about mental illness, because he believed it was all bound up in the cause and the cure of the illnesses. It sounds like you are taking responsibility for your own mental health and trying to ensure you never have any issues with it in the future.

#22 Benubi

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:48 PM

Hypnic jerk. Heh. Reading about that it seems so similar I'm sure there must be a connection.

RoseRed / SuccubusSherry I would be interested in what your approach to Shadow Work has been and your general thoughts on it. If not here then in PM or not even that, if its too personal. The reason I ask is that I'm sure there are various ways to successfully confront and, if all goes well, integrate the shadow.

Many years ago I went through something which might as well be the equivalent to Shadow Work. It wasn't the process as its often described, i.e. finding someone you have a deep irrational dislike of and using them as a kind of mirror for your personal shadow. Instead I was isolated, meditated a lot and examined my life until it was inescapable that hidden behind my popular image I was an elitist, judgemental, brutal, narcissistic anti-life vampiric monster. Not too flattering, lol, but oh so liberating to take that in and change. To put it plainly, it made me capable of intimacy and love. I know that stuff works.

#23 Qaexl

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:00 AM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 26 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

I expect he said much more about the shadow in his books about mental illness, because he believed it was all bound up in the cause and the cure of the illnesses.

In the middle of his career as a therapist, Jung had a period in life in which he had many mystical experiences. It was from those experiences that he developed the theories on shadows and archetypes.

One important thing to note. Some modern Jungian psychologists have found that conventional therapy don't always work. Sometimes, pieces of one's being fled from the moment of trauma. When diving into one's mind, there's nothing there to integrate because it isn't there. A soul retrieval is necessary to bring the piece back for integration.

Usually, though, it's aversion to something that is there that causes the fragmentation in the first place. At the core of integration is knowing that there is no separation because there are no separate selves. Being able to come back to the ... ground luminosity and recognizing that you and I are of the same basic ground, brings things back together again. But there are other methods too, some working better for one piece more than another.

-Qaexl

#24 RoseRed

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:54 PM

When pieces of the soul break off - it's usually from a severe trauma. Granted, each person is built differently and what to one person may be a minor event can be a massive soul shattering trauma to another. Soul's are resilient. They want to be whole. It's the individual's fear of internal pain that keeps them separate. Not everyone wants to be whole and it's damn near impossible to help a person that fights against it with every fiber of their being.

The mirror image technique is useful and it has it's place as a starting point. If you notice that you absolutely hate something about people - there's usually reason. There's usually an event that created that reason. Looking at that event objectively, studying it from all different angles dispassionately, seeing it with fresh eyes can usually put it back into it's proper perspective. When we're in the middle of something we can't see it objectively. It's out of proportion. It hurts. People bury it because they don't want to face it or deal with it.

My approach to shadow work is digging those things up and dealing with them. People avoid that because they're afraid it's going to hurt. They don't realize that it's already hurting them. It's causing them to react and taking away the ability to act.

Yes, there are times that soul retrievals are necessary. There are also times that events and traumas are so deeply buried that it takes someone gifted to be able to pull it out of them to see what it is because the person is unable to do so for themselves.

The latter happened just recently. I was helping a friend do some Shadow Work. Her life was run by the 'guilt monster'. She is/was very easily manipulated by guilt. She always believed that it was because she was almost molested. The molestation was stopped before it actually started. That wasn't the trauma. The trauma was how it was handled afterwards. The aftermath of that was what was buried. That was the part that she couldn't see. I had a very clear image from her memory of that moment that she couldn't face. When I described it to her she could no longer deny it. That was the moment that her mother and the 'almost' molester broke her spirit under the weight of guilt to make her keep her mouth shut. Everything would've been her fault if she 'told'. That was the moment that she was bound by chains of guilt.

Yes - facing that was painful. It was not nearly as painful as she was terrified it would be. Looking back at that moment with adult eyes, observing that moment dispassionately, seeing what was done to the young child that she was she could finally see it from a different perspective. She finally realized that the guilt she carried all those years was not actually hers to bear. She's not a kid - she's in her 50s - but until she faced that moment the 7 year old that she was carried the weight of that burden that never should've been placed on her. She still has work to do - we all do - but now instead of instantly reacting to guilt trips she has the ability to stop and consider her actions instead of reacting.

When I talk about Shadow Work - I'm not talking about magick. I'm talking about the parts of ourselves that we keep buried in the dark, in the shadows, because it's too painful to bring out into the light. Obviously, there's more to the story above but I think I wrote enough so that you can see what I mean about my approach to SW.

Edited by RoseRed, 27 June 2013 - 04:00 PM.

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#25 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostBenubi, on 26 June 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

RoseRed / SuccubusSherry I would be interested in what your approach to Shadow Work has been and your general thoughts on it.


I have not done shadow work the way RoseRed describes it. Once I met a healer who did something similar, in conjunction with counselling and bach flower remedies, and she said she was removing blocks in the mind which have been pushed down and forgotten. Her clients often cry when they release the block and feel changed afterwards.

Last summer I met Queen Mab in a meditation (an entity who my teacher knows) and she described to me another meditation I could do which would integrate my shadow. I did it and thought it had worked but I doubt if it was the real thing. I was interpreting the shadow as my evil side rather than as painful experiences from the past that might be in my mind, so what I integrated was just my evil side. Afterwards Queen Mab tried to make me do something horrible and I had a real struggle not to do it for about eight months until her glamour wore off.

I don't feel the need to do the shadow work that RoseRed describes, although by definition it would mean something that everyone must do at some time.

#26 Benubi

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:41 PM

Ok, so meditation.

#27 RoseRed

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:12 PM

Quote

I was interpreting the shadow as my evil side rather than as painful experiences from the past that might be in my mind, so what I integrated was just my evil side.

That's another part of it. Integrating the parts of yourself into a whole.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.

#28 VIRAL

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:05 PM

The Shadow is neither of those. The Shadow is kind of like the popular concept of the "subconscious" but of course not quite what modern (or even Jungian) psychoanmalysis purports that to tbe.

The Egyptian Ba, is a shadow.

#29 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:20 AM

View PostBenubi, on 27 June 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Ok, so meditation.

For me it is :since I lost my dream abilities I use meditation instead to accomplish the same goals. I wonder how far you can do shadow work within the dream, for example if you were having one of your dreams of being killed and it was a lucid dream could you work out the buried conflicts before waking up ? It always seems to be something that someone else does for you after and outside the dream, either a healer or a shamanic healer or a psychotherapist who asks you the dream and then gives appropriate treatment for the state your shadow is in.

#30 Qaexl

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:57 PM

View PostSuccubusSherry, on 28 June 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

It always seems to be something that someone else does for you after and outside the dream, either a healer or a shamanic healer or a psychotherapist who asks you the dream and then gives appropriate treatment for the state your shadow is in.

I've gotten fairly far with it, following aversion down into its roots. I have also received a lot of help from shamans and guides (that I trust). It works out for me that, I go as far as I can until I get stuck. Getting unstuck is usually going in the direction I don't want to go. But I asked for it, and in asking, I find the resolve to keep going.

I mean this in general -- all things that arises whether they arise in dreams or they arise while I am awake and interacting with the world. I try to do this all day, and when I go to bed.

-Qaexl

#31 Benubi

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:01 PM

Ok, regarding what has been discussed on this thread I should mention a free app I recently found for Android devices called SnoreClock. I love it! It records the sounds you make while sleeping and presents them to you in useful ways upon waking. You can listen to the recording, periods of snoring get coloured in red on a volume graph or a clock and it records statistics about your sleep patterns, e.g. percentage of your sleep you appear to snore, how many periods of snoring you have a night, how loudly you snore, etc. The snoring pattern recognition is good enough to pick up even mild snoring.

This app can be useful in helping to determine if you have sleep apnea. Interruptions in breathing can be heard during playback. Its also useful in recording any sleep talking that happens, hearing how much you move around during sleep and being instantly on to record dreams on waking.

Its fascinating to hear the kind of noises made by you or around you during sleep. Try this app for that reason alone. I'm sure there are many other similar apps for Android and iOS.

Thanks to the app I think I can tentatively rule out sleep apnea as a cause for my nightmares and sudden gasps awake.

#32 TheCusp

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostBenubi, on 13 July 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Ok, regarding what has been discussed on this thread I should mention a free app I recently found for Android devices called SnoreClock.

Good find! I'm not so much interested in my snoring, but I'm a sleep talker. Would be cool to include audio clips in my dream journal.
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#33 Benubi

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:29 AM

So, hahah, :rolleyes: it kinda turns out there were nasty molds growing close to where I was sleeping. For a couple of weeks I house-sat for some friends and didn't have any problems at all. That gave me a clue. After I got back I noticed the damp musty smell and found water had been leaking behind a big wardrobe. I slept in a different room. No problems at all. I cleared the entire flat, nuked the mold and everything around it, set up a dehumidifier, air purifiers, cleaned everything again as much as I could. No problems sleeping now.

Still, it hasn't been unhelpful to treat this as anxiety or sleep apnea related. Much good came from that.

Edited by Benubi, 27 August 2013 - 07:29 AM.






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