39 replies to this topic

[Galuruthaz]

@Imperial Arts:

I've read Arbatel already and you can see that in my last post, but in case you missed it I'll repeat myself. Requirements of Arbatel do not pose a problem to me, cause in a way I am already living by them. Arbatel requires faith in God - I have believe in God. It requires virtuoes living - I am trying to lead the virtuous life. It requires that one helps their own neighbours - I help my neighbours. ) It requires that one avoids company of multitude - I avoid the company of multitude. The only think that it requires and that I don't do is 'fear of the God'. I find that idea pointless and certainly not necessary. I also think that most of the Arbatel requirements don't have much to do with spirits, but are just the representation of Magical world-view Arbatel author held and which worked for him. There is another grimoire, with the same spirits as in Arbatel - called Secret Grimoire of Turiel. This one completely skips the religious tone and gives only a ritual structure. What do you make of that?

@Attila:
Great idea - I am just finishing my temple. I think that idea is great, but I never did anything similar except maybe some Rune pathworking. I'll try it as I get used to the the temple some more..

@MatinTheHat: When you say invocation do you mean invocation like a prayer or like possession kind of thing? As for the circle, I'll make it 9ft and in my room. I figured out how to re-arrange the furniture so I can have just enough space for it..

[Imperial Arts]

Galuruthaz, on 20 July 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

There is another grimoire, with the same spirits as in Arbatel - called Secret Grimoire of Turiel. This one completely skips the religious tone and gives only a ritual structure. What do you make of that?

The Secret Grimoire of Turiel is probably a re-make produced within the last century, contemporary with the Regardie materials that include the same spirits.

Speaking generally of grimoires and rites of magic, when you find yourself dismissing a major part of the instructions as "pointless and unnecessary," without having any experience in the subject whatsoever, step back and give the subject a more thorough consideration.

You asked for advice, and this is a strange tone in which you receive it. I will not burden you with further admonition.

[Galuruthaz]

You are misunderstanding me, again. I said that I already meet almost all of Arbatel requirements. The one I don't meet is the fear.

Why do you think fear of god is nessecary? I don't think that Olympic spirits want us to be frightened, and especialy not Ophiel. All fear comes from ignorance, and evoking spirit of knowlege with the emotion of fear sounds like paradox at best. I serously think that this part is projecton of Arbatels author.

Do you think that there is only one way to meet the spirits of Arbatel or more?

I am sorry if my post sounded harsh or ungrateful, I do appreciate your advice, its just that English is not my primary language so I am not that good at expressing subtle tones of conversation through it. And using the internet as a medium of communication makes it even harder.

[voidgazing]

Quote

All fear comes from ignorance,

No, it doesn't. Some certainly does though, and the god in question is unknowable- it is vaster than you can ever be, it works in mysterious ways. To claim to understand it is an act of supreme arrogance- in fact, blasphemy. So you should be afraid of it in this context.

[MatintheHat]

The invocation is like a prayer/possession (you can let the god or spirit "ride" you or just talk to you or just empower your ritual). The entity communicates to you directly through your auric field. It is actually easier to do than evocation. I usually write my own invocations, and use the invocation to access god forms.

In the Golden Dawn they use the rite of invocation before performing a ritual so that they radiate the authority of the divine.

God forms are actually more manageable through invocation rather than evocation in my experience.

When I do evocations I usually use this formula

Banish (lesser banishing ritual of pentagram) - invoke (I invoke the formless one or an Egyptian deity) - energize (I use the middle pillar) - Banish again (this time I use the ritual of the hexagram)- Evoke - Banish - Banish - Then go drink a beer and eat something spicy (to close the ritual and move myself back to the mundane, I believe that the Golden Dawn has a mead ritual after evocation.)

[Galuruthaz]

voidgazing, on 20 July 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

No, it doesn't. Some certainly does though, and the god in question is unknowable- it is vaster than you can ever be, it works in mysterious ways. To claim to understand it is an act of supreme arrogance- in fact, blasphemy. So you should be afraid of it in this context.

I can see what you are trying to say, but that same God, who 'acts in mysterious ways', is supposed to be the most evolved being that can exist, and the most loving one, too. So if God loves us, why should we fear? With fear comes avoidance, and much healthier attitude is the one of acceptance. Its pretty much common knowledge that God tests his people. Isn't the attitude of accepting and embracing those tests, and the hard time that they bring, better then the attitude of fearing them? God wants us to trust Him, to have faith. I really think that all fear comes from ignorance. If one would KNOW everything, not by thinking and intellect only, but KNOW through experiencing - then I think there would be no fear. Its said in Liber Al vel Legis: "Remember all ye that existence is pure joy" - Can we be fearful while being truly aware of this?

@MattinTheHat:

Hmm, interesting. I've always though that posesion is actually harder to produce. I guess one should have a strong sense of self before doing it. Can you recommend me some literature about it? I'd be really grateful as I am interested in learning more about it.

So far my preparation goes smoothly. I'm halfway to obtaining all of the equipment needed and as time passes I'll get more and more immersed in Arbatel. I've read it few times since the last time I posted and I think I meet almost all requirements. One thing I am not doing is praying to the God daily, but I'll try to change that. I might even start praying next week. I kinda resist this since I have more LHP approach to the Magic and I highly associate praying with Christianity which is ranked really low in my mind. I guees this is a great opportunity to overcome this, since I'll need to learn how to properly pray if I want to work with some other deities later. Odin comes to mind..

Thanks everyone for advice and suggestions - you've been most helpful.

Edited by Galuruthaz, 07 August 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[R. Eugene Laughlin]

Galuruthaz, on 07 August 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

I guees this is a great opportunity to overcome this, since I'll need to learn how to properly pray if I want to work with some other deities later. Odin comes to mind..

Jeez. If you start praying to Odin, pray that He doesn't notice. LOL!

[Galuruthaz]

Hahah, nice one. I'm sure he would be pissed off if I prayed to him in order to ask for help - but I dont think he would mind if I spent some time 'praying' to him with the intention of inviting him into my life.

Edited by Galuruthaz, 07 August 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[voidgazing]

Quote

I really think that all fear comes from ignorance. If one would KNOW everything, not by thinking and intellect only, but KNOW through experiencing - then I think there would be no fear.

I was kind of coming at this from the perspective of the subject matter. In context, you do not know, and thus should fear- we're talking about a special kind of religious awe, a holy terror. The perspective you are coming at it from is a much more modern one- that God is your pal.

According to the ritual in question, that awe/fear is an essential element. What you're talking about doing is altering the fundamental structure of the ritual, your first time out. This is maybe not the best plan. I wouldn't be using this ritual in your place, but seeking one a little more beginner friendly that didn't require such an ugly hack.

What is in your heart matters. In fact, it may be truly all that does. The ritual's designer is telling you what to go in with in order to get the result it is meant to provide, and you are waving your hand at it.

[Galuruthaz]

Well, I'm starting today. I decided to give my best in the week that comes. That means doing these aside my usual Magic training:

- Fasting(no sugar, no caffeine, no meat, and for 2 days before evocation I'll just have the super-light breakfast and dinner)
- Daily Ophiel Meditations(30 minutes)
- I'll continue my Rune meditations since Im done meditating on first 4 Runes and I can start with the 5th, which is Raido. I find that energy of that Rune and the energy of Ophiel are very similar in way and I think it will further my understanding of it. It will focus my attention into the evocation even more.
- Scrying into the bowl with water, 2 times a day for 20 minutes as a way to prepare for the invocation in it(bowl is a medium of choice for the invocation)
- Doing the AP exercise as described in Liber O(once a day for 15-30 minutes, hopefuly it will help me develop my astral senses)
- Daily Praying(at awakening and before going to bed - I'll use a prayer which is described in Arbatel, Aphorism 14)
- I'll try to feel the God in my life and expose myself to beauty wherever I can find it.

The idea behind this project was to learn how to control my mind better and to get familiars for poetry. My requested are a little different now, instead of familiar for poetry I'd like a familiar that will enable me to learn guitar and music more quickly and efficiently and I'd also like Ophiel to help me achieve better control of my mind, since I am un-attentitive for the most of the day.

Hopefully, I'll succeed in this project. I was/am probably being impatient with evocation and maybe I should have taken more time to develop some basic skills before doing this. Because of that I am not expecting much to happen, but I am really hoping for the best. In a way, it was success already since I learned a lot about Magic and evocation during the last month or two..

Edited by Galuruthaz, 29 August 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[mrblack]

I am actually more curious as to how conjuring Ophiel will help you conjure Odin
later on. It doesn't seem like what you are doing now will translate well towards
working with Odin.

Also, you seem to be more familiar with the Norse/Rune model already - why
didn't you just jump in towards working with Odin?

[Galuruthaz]

Two reasons.

First, I never evoked a spirit before and I felt that for the first time - Odin might be 'too much'. I wanted to begin with somethings smaller. Taking little steps in evocation business instead big leaps. Also, before my decision to start with Arbatel, I wasn't even sure if He can even be evoked so I wanted to try with something that's been tested already.

Second reason was that calling Odin for things like 'teach me how to control my attention better' was wrong. It seems like its a trivial thing to ask God like him for. It would be similar to using a flamethrower to light a cigarette I guess.

Quote

It doesn't seem like what you are doing now will translate well towards
working with Odin.

I think it does, because he is a God of knowledge. He sacrificed himself to himself in order to get more power and understanding. Nothing was too sacred to Him and no paths are forbidden. He worked with everything that could help His growth. I'm doing a similar thing with the Arbatel - straying of the sure path(Runes) so I could get better understanding of myself and the process of evocation.

-------------------
UPDATE

So far its been good. For the last few days I followed the preparations for 50%. I avoided meat, but drank coke. I meditated, scryed, and practiced AP but I didn't manage to do it every day. I didn't pray, but I tried to find God in things more often then I usually do. I also feel very grateful for this life here on earth cause its beautiful, even it feels hard sometimes. I did most of the things Arbatel requires(not only for the last week but for a month and for some even more):

- Avoid the company of multitude - Done that, most of the time.
- I avoided procrastination as much as I could. I did Bardons exercises of Food, Water, Breath impregmentation with the intent of getting over my laziness. So far, I feel progress.
- I helped my neighbours.

Also, Aphorism 39 lists 7 requirements:

Quote

There is a seven-fold preparation to learn the Magick Art.

The first is, to meditate day and night how to attain to the true knowledge of God, both by his word revealed from the foundation of the world; as also by the seal of the creation, and of the creatures; and by the wonderful effects which the visible and invisible creatures of God do shew forth.

Secondly it is requisite, that a man descend down into himself, and chiefly study to know himself; what mortal part he hath in him, and what immortal; and what part is proper to himself, and what diverse.

Thirdly, That he learn by the immortal part of himself, to worship, love and fear the eternal God, and to adore him in Spirit and Truth; and with his mortal part, to do those things which he knoweth to be acceptable to God, and profitable to his neighbours.

These are the three first and chiefest precepts of Magick, wherewith let every one prepare himself that covets to obtain true Magick or divine wisdom, that he may be accounted worthy thereof, and one to whom the Angelical creatures willingly do service, not occultly onely, but also manifestly, and as it were face to face.

Fourthly, Whereas every man is to be vigilant to see to what kinde life he shall be called from his mothers wombe, that every one may know whether he be born to Magick, and to what species thereof, which every one may perceive easily that readeth these things, and by experience may have success therein; for such things and such gifts are not given but onely to the low and humble.

In the fifth place we are to take care, that we understand when the Spirits are assisting us, in undertaking the greatest business; and he that understands this, it is manifest, that he shall be made a Magician of the ordination of God; that is, such a person who useth the ministery of the Spirits to bring excellent things to pass. Here, as for the most part, they sin, either through negligence, ignorance, or contempt, or by too much superstition; they offend also by ingratitude towards God, whereby many famous men have afterwards drawn upon themselves destruction: they sin also by rashness and obstinacy; and also when they do not use their gifts for that honor of God which is required, and do prefer (parerga ergoiV).^*

Sixthly, The Magitian [sic] hath need of faith and taciturnity, especially, that he disclose no secret which the Spirit hath forbid him, as he commanded Daniel to seal some things, that is, not to declare them in publick; so as it was not lawful for Paul to speak openly of all things which he saw in a vision. No man will believe how much is contained in this one precept.

Seventhly, In him that would be a Magician, there is required the greatest justice, that he undertake nothing that is ungodly, wicked or unjust, nor to let it once come in his minde; and so he shall be divinely defended from all evil.

The first and the second I think I meet, third I meet partially, I also think I meet the fourth - for the fifth, Im not so sure. Sixth I also meet and the seventh gives me some trouble, since I lean to the 'gray' more then anything and I agree about the morals more with Nitsztche than I do with church.

Tomorrow at the first hour of Mercury, I'll create and consectrate the Lamen and afternoon I'll do the evocaton. If that fails, I'll try it again in the evening. Today, I decided to only have breakfast and dinner, no meat, no sugar and no caffeine. Tomorow I'll drink only water.

I'm concerned about how am I supposed to see the Ophiel? I decided to use glass bowl with water as a place where he can manifest, and I practiced scrying for the last few days - I can see the pictures in my mind easily from the shapes that dark water makes in the dark. Its similar to staring at the clouds and 'seeing' rabits, dragons as a kid. Its called eidetic vision, i think? However, I do not SEE with my eyes any visions and pictures IN the water. I sometimes get glimpes of foggy air moving, but those are probably just my eyes playing tricks in the dark.

I'm also getting a better idea through meditations of what Ophiel is like. Or I am making the stuff up lol. Some of the things I learned are:

- His number is 8 and his colour is orange/yellow, same as Mercury which is the part of him in way. I've learned that Ophiel is a servant of Mercury, but also Mercury itself. Similiar to how our servitors are parts of ourselfs actually. In a way, he is a mind of Mercury.

His nature is similar to electricity, its always moving and unstable. He opens the gates to new things and he is always searching for new himself. He is a divider of dualities, he decides on what is beautiful and whats ugly. He is also a pure joy and a child that loves to play. He is a master preteneder and a Devil in microcosmos(master of matter, or to term it better: master of perception)..

So far, I think I'm doing fine but tommorow will show. As Crowley put it, results will be my proof. One thought that botters me the most is:

What if I succeede in evocation but instead of Ophiel I evoke my idea of Him instead?

Edited by Galuruthaz, 04 September 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[R. Eugene Laughlin]

I wasn't going to offer advice on interacting with Norse deities, but I've changed my mind.

You don't invoke Nose deity through ritual. Doing so has generally two outcomes : 1) nothing meaningful happens, 2) you get their attention but not even close to the way you wanted.

What you need to do is live an honorable life, exercise courage and cunning, or otherwise generally emulate the characteristics that typify your target deity in your day to day actions. Working with Norse runes in manner we've already discussed is a natural path to a relationship with Odin, for what should be obvious reasons, but it's not enough on its own. You can do whatever piddling around you want, but what you're doing isn't going to help you with Odin in the least. Quite the opposite I think.

You might start by writing out a description of the idealized Odinic lifestyle, then compare it to your own. Then get to work. When, and only when, you're truly worthy of Odin's attention will you get it in the good way you're hoping for. You won't need to do a ritual to initiate the communion either. It'll happen when you deserve it and not a moment sooner nor later.

[Galuruthaz]

So, what you're saying is basically "You don't call Odin, but Odin calls you", right? Thats how I felt about it in beginning but reading some books and posts here gave me a different idea. Its more like a mystic way of communication, then a magician one if I understand.

I always had a feeling that evocation of Gods is an arrogant thing to try to do. It asssumes that one controls Gods. Its one of the reasons why I don't feel comfortable with the idea of evoking Odin.
When I opened the thread 'Question about the Gods' two months ago I was getting 'signs'(feeling His presence, 'seeing' His face in the courtain etc) that Odin is near, but as I started doing the Arbatel work and changing my focus from Odin and Runes to 'God' and Ophiel those signs stopped.

I figured, I'll get to Him later, after I finish this. I see the Arbatel project I'm trying to do like a straying from my path, but I'll learn a lot in the process and even though it consumes my energy and time that I could have dedicated to the Runes and Odin, I'll get out with the better understanding of myself and Magic so I guess it has a purpose.

Before starting this I had a really basic understanding of how is something evoked/invoked. David Rankine book looked like a good entrance into that world and Olympic spirits seemed like a perfect thing to start with, but recently MatintheHat recommended me the Hands on Chaos Magic which describes the process of invocation in detaill and if I had that book earlier, I'd probably drop the Arbatel and use the ideas from that book to evoke wights from the Norse myth, or maybe even the Runes themselves as an introduction to spirit communication.

I really like the Idea of creating a vision of Odinic lifestyle and going for it. I'll do that after this, and I'll probably place all my attention into the Runes and Odin. I'm feeling little frustrated with this mixing of systems since I'm giving my complete attention to neither of them. Its like drinking two different drinks that do not mix good at the same time. Thanks for the advice.

[voidgazing]

Ima second R Eugene here. There are a lot of spirits that want you to grow, to become enlightened, that readily, if you are worthy and sincere, help you grow. Kali comes to mind here.

Then there are gods who orchestrate terrible battles so that the best warriors may be killed and chosen. Gods who's ethos is not "enlightenment" but "pragmatism".

They rose to greet the still-sunless morning, their breath making plumes in the cold air, knowing that what they needed was over the hill in that little long house. If luck was with them, none of those sleeping there would wake enough to scream before their skulls were split, their throats cut, or in the case of the littlest ones their wind taken by a boot in the belly and its patiently pressing weight. They are not guilty, those dreamers, nor are they innocent. These ideas are not here known, and would be head-scratchers if they were. These wolves do not trouble themselves with such nonsense when taking a deer or a rabbit or a man, nor do they much mind about respect for the dead when worrying the bones of a corpse. These dreamers committed no crime but that of having meat in a winter when meat is too scarce. If some should by chance survive and escape, a price will be paid in accordance with the laws- but that is later, this summer or next if this year is too hard, a thing for old men to worry over at the allthing. To this end the band would save all of the gold to be had here; they had already taken another house held by this same clan, and with luck would simply pay the weregild due the survivors of each with the gold of the other.

[mrblack]

@Galuruthaz: It seems to me that you think there is a "power" difference between Odin & Ophiel.

Well, since this is your first evocation - I guess this line of reasoning is to be expected but I think
REL basically wrote what I wanted to imply.....

Good luck.

[Galuruthaz]

Well I did the call and the results, if there were any, were invisible to me. I wasn't much surprised, considering that evocation/invocation is probably the most advanced magical technique that exists and I am still new too magick even if I sometimes like to think that 'i know everything'. The whole process was a failure. xD

First thing I fucked up was that i overslept and I woke up at the 6:49 and the first hour of Mercury was ending at 7:07. So I created the lamen in a hurry and finished purifying and consecrating it at the second planetary hour, which was the Moon hour. I also purified all the other items I'll be using in a ritual later. After that I used my spare time to memorize remaining prayers/invocations.

At the beginning of the ceremony, I took a bath and I felt pissed off because I couldn't get my family to be quiet, so I was also distracted by telephone calls etc. I guess that is not the good state to be in when preparing for the ritual. x)

Altar Set-Up: A big candle, my wand, eight magic candles, water-bowl with the Lamen under it.

The structure of ritual was following:

1. Hammer Ritual - to cleanse the area and my negativity. It worked marvelously well, I felt at peace after it and more focused.
2. Drawed the subtle circle around the physical one - my visualization could have been better.
3. Lit 8 candles
4. Did the Ritual of Heptagram, Invoking Mercury - I had an excellent concentration and visualization, however it lacked that special feeling I usually have when I do it properly.

- After it I accidentally hit the candles with my hands and I spent another couple of minutes putting them the way they were standing. I could almost hear the Gods laugh at that moment. When I cleared that up, I recited the following:

- Prayer to the God
- Preliminary Conjuration

small pause

- Conjuration

Now, the Conjurations didn't do their job, or to be more precise - I haven't done mine. I memorized them, but I didn't practice reciting them enough so I had a lot of trouble to concentrate. I didn't have the flow of consciousness and they didn't get me into a trance at all. I had them written on paper, but reading them while trying to scry? I won't do that again, ever. xD

After that epic fail I tried reciting all prayers again and since that wasn't working eithery I did some freestyle calling, chanting Ophiels name in a combination with the Conjuration given in Arbatel. The idea was to inflame myself with prayer. I did that for 10 minutes or so and that put me into a light trance but I wasn't getting anything useful. I did the conjurations for the last time and since Ophiel wasn't showing up, I decided to state my SOI in case he's here but I can't sense him. After that, I gave the licence to depart and the ritual was done. I did the Hammer ritual afterwards, just to clear that ritual 'aura' from my room.

- This was my first "big" ritual so I learned a lot. One thing that sticks out is how much planning and preparation is needed and how easy it is to fuck things up. I also figured that Imperial Arts was right, this is a religious Magic. Before the ritual I had the idea that praying to God is just one way to get in contact with these spirits, now I think that that is the core of the system and working with the Olympic is just a way to get closer to God. They are not separate from the Christian/Hermetic teaching. While reciting the prayers, I felt like a liar at a lot of points and on intuitive level I felt that I have the wrong approach. This is a Magic for someone who 'digs' the whole JHVH, You Shall Have No Gods Except Me, and You Are All SInful Bastards appproach. I also asked the Runes about the whole operation and this is what I got:

- My relationship with Arbatel before this ritual: Laguz. I interpreted this as "You got lost, dude. " since Laguz is a Rune of subconscious, subtle, water, love, dillema, dreams etc.

- Results of this ritual: Gebo. Gebo is the Rune of gifts, friendship, bonds, promises etc. I figured that this indicates that I did made the contact, although for some reason I didn't percieve Ophiel or he heard but was was busy.

- Results of me working with the Arbatel in the future - Uruz. I get that this probably means 'empowerment' or maybe even an initiation.

I decided to do nothing more but wait - if Ophiel gives me some sign like show up in my dream, I'll try invoking Him again and work with Arbatel some more, but if nothing happens I'll place all of my attention to Runes and Norse Gods and Wights.

Quote

Well, since this is your first evocation - I guess this line of reasoning is to be expected

I really hope that I will be forgiven for making a lot of stupid claims on this thread and that in a few years you will all forget what my statements from the time when I was young, naive and stupid. ;D Thanks everyone here, you've been most helpful. This is the best community I've seen on the internet, this forum is gold.

[R. Eugene Laughlin]

Relax. You haven't said anything that bad, and hey, if I could count every inane thing I've posted to internet forums over the years... heh, well, just don't worry about it.

[Kuroyagi]

Odin is the god of both poetry (writing) and war: on the one hand he is giving his eye for wisdom and hangs on Ygg, the world tree- a synonym of himself- in an ordeal that lets him discover the runes, and on the other he still is chief to the Aesir and commander of the Ones who are Fallen and Chosen in battle, of those he will lead in a fruitless attempt to overcome the forces of Fenrir at World’s End. What is often forgotten is the great melancholy and ponderousness of his character, his philosophical self-doubts, his compassion and his taking on responsibility as a leader even though he knows the futility of it all. He knows that all will eventually end and he even knows how because he has clairvoyantly foreseen it, already. Once he 'told' me something that has irreversibly imprinted itself on my mind: 'Every true warrior is also a poet, every poet a warrior.'

Odin likes poetry philosophy writing and fighting. Don't overcomplicate it or occultism will be no fun and after a couple of years you'll be a pompous ass with hardly any exp and much babble in your head to be triggered at a word's notice. Odin hates poseurs like that.

All gods are extremely easy to contact- 1) research (their stories, myths and legends), 2) reverence (puja, prayer)- call them, and 3) creativity+ intuition (communication) based on and inspired by former practices, also: skrying for aftereffects etc..if you really must, you can banish though it's completely unnecessary and also a bit impolite. The arts are in such a lousy state these days! Why do you even let yourself be held up by these platitudinous preliminaries is completely beyond us.

Edited by Kuroyagi, 07 September 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[mrblack]

@Galuruthaz
No worries, I was just curios with your process, why you decided to go that way.
I'm always interested in learning new things to apply to my practice.

Best wishes.

@Kuroyagi
Well said.