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The Toad Bone


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#1 Adumbra

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:55 AM

Has anyone here obtained a toad bone in the manners described by Pliny or The Grimiore of the Golden Toad?

While the details of the process vary the essence of it is finding a dead toad (or killing a live one), placing its body on an anthill until the flesh is eaten away and then casting the bones upon a creek or river. It is said that one of the bones will float and travel upsteam. If this happens you will hear lots of scary noises all around you but you must ignore them and do everything in your power to recover the bone. If you are able to get your hands on it, it is said the bone grants you a plethora of powers including:

* The power to make cold water hot & hot water cold.
* The power to command any animal, wild or domestic.
* The power to summon a demonic steed who can take you anywhere in the world in the blink of an
eye.

I don't know about you but to me it sounds like it would be worth the attempt. So has anyone done it and lived to tell the tale?

P.S. Here is a detailed article on the subject

Edited by Adumbra, 08 April 2012 - 08:07 AM.

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#2 Pale

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:24 PM

Sounds like your standard medieval grimoire nonsense to me. I can't see how a toad bone would grant you those abilities.

#3 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:14 PM

Pale, most of your posts consist of saying "sounds like bullshit to me". Do not post if you have nothing to contribute other than that. Consider this a light warning.

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#4 Pale

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:37 PM

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 08 April 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Pale, most of your posts consist of saying "sounds like bullshit to me". Do not post if you have nothing to contribute other than that. Consider this a light warning.

Seriously?

Firstly, He made a post asking for peoples opinions, presumably that includes opinions other than 'that sounds totally legit, try it.' What's the point of a discussion or debate if you refuse to allow people to express skepticism?

Admittedly I could have been a little more specific, but I assumed most people with an interest in the occult would look at something like that and realize that it's the kind of thing written to mislead or delude people that usually pops up in those old grimoires. If you think it merits more indepth discussion then I'm gonna have to disagree, at least in the context of a simple 'would this work' question. If he was asking something specific about the details of the ritual, or it's origins, or how it could be altered into a usable working, sure. But asking whether playing around with dead toads will let you summon demonic steeds? Come on.

More to the point, I'd love to know where you're getting this 'most of my posts' from? Most of my posts say nothing of the sort. The only similar comment I found in my post history was regarding Joseph Smith, and it's fairly common knowledge that he was a fraud of the highest degree.

Other than that I think the majority of my posts have contributed to the topic at hand, or at least been relevant. If you're going to go around making comments about someone's posting patterns, you could at least read their post history first. Mine isn't very long, so it shouldn't take too much of your time.

Edited by Pale, 08 April 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#5 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:11 PM

You are perfectly free to express your views. But in the future if you just have a dismissive comment to make either leave it alone or explain what you mean or why you hold that view.

Edited by Nalyd Khezr Bey, 08 April 2012 - 05:12 PM.

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#6 PheonixAlpha

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:26 PM

I have heard a few tales about the toad bone here in the UK, usually stories to do with charming animals. One story I had heard was a toad man who could get horses to do what ever he wanted. The story goes there was an uncontrollable horse who had injured the workers on a farm and a man came through the Village and around his neck he had a bone of the toad. It was a symbol of witchcraft and of power, this man went to the farm and just walked right up to the horse and the horse bowed before him and followed his command.

Edited by PheonixAlpha, 08 April 2012 - 05:32 PM.

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#7 Brennan

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:28 PM

I'm almost wondering if this is more-so related to an alchemical process than a literal 'put a dead toad on an ant-hill' thing...
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#8 Iago

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

View PostPale, on 08 April 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Sounds like your standard medieval grimoire nonsense to me. I can't see how a toad bone would grant you those abilities.
In that case, where's the harm in trying?

And of course as said there may be some degree of allegory involved here as there is often revealed to be.

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#9 Caliban

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:29 PM

That's a frequent sort of supposition, Brennan, when encountering folklore of this kind - that the instructions are a sort of puzzle or code for an alchemical process or herbal formula. But for my part, I don't think it is so.

Folklore of this sort is very old and very persistant. The legend of a jewel in the toad's forehead, or of the one bone of a black cat that can confer invisibility and so on seem to mean just what they say. Natural amulets and luck-pieces are well established in folk magic practice. They can be effective, if not necessarily living up to every grandiose claim.

The horsetamer and his toad-bone is an example of what can reasonably be accomplished. Whether the virtue lay in the man's skill or the bone is arguable but ultimately irrelevant. What stands out in this case is that others knew he was a cunning-man because he had the toad-bone, and they could see it.

I have not performed this operation, nor the experiment of the black cat bone. But I have employed others, such as a wart cure, that seemed totally ungrounded in reason and had them work as promised. So I'd not rule out the toad-bone out of hand.

But I wouldn't necessarily expect it to do all that is said of it. I can, in any case, summon an infernal steed with fire in its belly that belches noxious smoke which will carry me wherever I desire simply by picking up the phone and dialing TAXI-CAB. :D


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#10 Imperial Arts

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

Bones don't normally float, especially upstream, so it would be an omen of acceptance of the gesture to witness such a thing. I could imagine that most people would be wondering in anxiety, "What if they all sink? What if two float? What if none go upstream?"

The powers at work, if they work, must have something beyond toad-substance behind them. I suggest that it is some deity or spirit, like Hera (to whom toads are sacred), who is observing the worthiness of the one preparing the creature and from that judgment decides whether or not to empower the bone as an amulet. To be transported, I assume, involves some manner of clairvoyance, although perhaps it is my faith in the powers that is weak and the spirit responsible for these works actually does have the power to transport people instantly across the world.

It is also possible that this ancient process was originally allegorical, or has been taken as an allegory for so long that such is presently a more productive view of the subject. The only piece of writing by Andrew Chumbley which I can willingly recommend is "The Leaper Between," a study in toad amulets, probably his finest writing and certainly a far greater contribution to occult lore than his grimoires.

The infamous cat-bone conjuration appears in the Dragon Rouge grimoire, and may be better known from the works of T.H. White. In this conjuration, as it is written in the grimoire, one is expected to boil a cat in a cauldron along with a piece of jasper stone, then draw out the bones individually and place them on your tongue while staring into a mirror. If it does not make your image in the mirror disappear, you are to cast the bone behind you and say "accept what you are given and nothing more."

When your image finally disappears, which is a natural effect of staring into the mirror that everyone who has done this sort of gazing will recognize, you are instead expected to fall backwards immediately and seal the enchantment with a prayer. When you wish to become invisible, it is this prayer that you give: "Into thy hands I commit my spirit." Having instructed previously to accept only what is given, the magician is preserving his body with what might be considered a final prayer.

An example of this sort of event, if not of the grimoire itself, comes from the records of Weichselmunde prison in 1815, when a man named Diderici simply "disappeared" despite having men right next to him and everything in plain view. No one would suspect that as a person begins a final prayer he is actually casting a spell to deliver him from the sight of his captors.

My own experience in conjuring the same spirit responsible for the spell in the Dragon Rouge grimoire, and likely that in the G. Verum, is that the key is not the cat or toad creature itself but in the peculiar stone. Though it is writtn as "jasper" in the grimoire, the spirit indicated to me that I should employ a particular variety of green chalcedony with the likeness of toad-skin, and that there were to be no animals killed for the purpose. i plan to carve this material into a toad shape and keept it on a gold chain, to be placed in the mouth when needed. The more expedient form, that of the invocation alone, is the reward of one with temerity enough to make such a rigorous pact as that given by the Dragon Rouge.

#11 Alice

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 12:13 AM

I'd say it might be worth trying the ritual in its literal interpretation, just to see what happens. I would elect for doing the final part of the ritual on a foggy morning just before dawn, just to give it the right atmosphere for this kind of thing.

The effect almost certainly will not be as dramatic as described, but such things are often exaggerated. Ginseng can't really cure all ailments, but it's a powerful immune booster. I can't bring the dead back to life, but I can call the spirits of the dead just fine.

Animal bones definitely have power in the right hands. Without going into too much detail, I've used them to call up the spirit of the animal they used to belong to and made agreements for various magical workings, thereafter using the bone as a charm for that purpose. I wouldn't doubt for a moment that a necklace holding a toad bone could protect an initiate from harm by animals if nothing else. I wouldn't recommend procuring such a charm by killing the animal unless you are able to use every part of it. Using the bones of the deer you kill for dinner is a good idea. Giving the meat to the ants is disrespectful to the sacrifice of the animal.

Alchemy isn't my strong suit, so it may be that, but I'm disinclined to think so, since it fits the bill for the kinds of witchcraft and hedgewitchery that people like Appalachian Crone and myself never really stopped doing. I've always preferred plant work over animals, but I do know a potent protection spell calling for deer blood and I'd love to make wind chimes from cattle bones one of these days. Such charms may be more obscure and seem more macabre, but they really don't differ that much from mandellas of rabbit and deer fur and dreamcatchers strung with sinew.

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#12 Adumbra

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:41 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone. Imperial Art's comments were especially interesting; his interpretation of the ritual is the only one that makes any sense to me.

I have to say this spell mistifies me because it doesn't seem to make sense within the paradigm of most folk magic. I can't see the connection between toads and gaining the obedience of other animals (if any animal is a bottom, it is a toad), let alone summoning magical horses. Nor do any of the common magical laws like contagion, sympathy, or analogy seem to apply here. Still, the fact that this charm dates all the way back to Pliny makes an alchemical interpretation improbable.

Personally, I'm not prepared to kill a toad (especially in the cruel way suggested in Chumbley's grimoire) but I have a way of getting things that I want so I'm certain that some day soon I'll find a dead one lying on the ground. If anything comes of it I'll record the results.
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#13 Alice

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:13 AM

Toads are animals of luck and magical power in general. Off the top of my head I can't recall the justification, but now I'll have to do some research. Based on the toad's position in magical lore, any power can reasonably attributed to it.

May you find what you seek,
Alice

#14 Whispers

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:58 AM

This is related.
http://rootandrock.b...-sacrifice.html

#15 Azoth

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:55 AM

View PostWhispers, on 23 April 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:


Damn good article. Echoes my own feelings about the act of sacrifice involved in the rite.

I've considered using Chumbley's method, and I'm also interested to see if anyone has actually performed it.

View PostBrennan, on 08 April 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm almost wondering if this is more-so related to an alchemical process than a literal 'put a dead toad on an ant-hill' thing...

From my own understanding, it's a literal dead toad in a literal anthill, but deconstructing the process into an allegorical medium certainly could have merit.





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