28 replies to this topic

[Kuroyagi]

Recently I have become interested in this topic and did some preliminary re-/search for books and sites that would look good to me (all the following). Can anyone who is maybe more experienced either give his opinion about some of those works (yay or nay) or contribute others that have proven to be useful for hi/r. Thanks & best regards, K.

Books:
Kenaz Filan: The Haitian Vodou Handbook: Protocols for Riding with the Lwa
Milo Rigaud: Secrets of Voodoo
Alfred Metaux: Voodoo in Haiti
Wade Davis: The Serpent and the Rainbow
Zora Neale Hurston: Tell My Horse: Voodoo and Life in Haiti and Jamaica
Maya Deren: Divine Horsemen: The Living Gods of Haiti (there's also the documentary on youtube)
Robert Farris Thompson: Flash of the Spirit: African & Afro-American Art & Philosophy: African and Afro-American Art and Philosophy
Wade Davies: Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie

Louis Martinie: The New Orleans Voodoo Tarot (Destiny Books) (not sure about this one but it looks like fun)

Some others+ sites:
Brujo Negro: Voodoo Grimoire http://www.brujonegr...page/716732.htm
African Traditional Religion Study Group: http://destee.com/in...study-group.59/

Not sure about these:
Books and Grimiores by Basil Crouch/Basil E. LeCroix
E.A.Koetting/Baron de Prince [love the name]: The Spider and the Green Butterfly
S.Jason Black/Christopher Hyatt: Urban Voodoo
Michael Bertiaux: The Voudon Gnostic Workbook

Latter two could maybe be considered a bit 'mainstream' by purists, or so my intuition tells me...

Do you know any of those or have worked with them. Feel free to add your own suggestions as I'd be very interested in them all!

Edited by Kuroyagi, 03 March 2012 - 04:26 AM.

[servant of hecate]

I'm no expert but I definitely recommend Kenan Filan's book as well as Martine's tarot as I have both and they really flesh out the lwas and entities involved. The Voudoun Gnostic workbook is more of a thelemic/thyphonian work that is super interesting but I don't think it's what you are looking for.

I want to keep a close eye on this thread as this is something that interests me as well. I had a close friend who was involved in Voodoo but he refused to share much with me. I got the impression he was under oath. He did impart info about Papa Legbe and a few rituals he had worked with him. He would always stress that Voodoo was not for the faint of heart, powerful, and not to be entered in lightly. His words made me personally cautious but infinitely curious.

Edited by servant of hecate, 03 March 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[Kuroyagi]

I remember Bertiaux' book as being mentioned in a few of K.Grant's works and wanted to get that for some time, anyway. Legba is as far as I know the typical initiatory spirit- the one presiding over the cross-roads [and the gateway to the spirit-realm]- who is called at the beginning of nearly every working...

Also I forgot to mention one author -Papa Shanga!- who is quite all over the bookstores in the German-speaking countries (and consequentially maybe unknown in the Anglo-Saxon ones[?]).

If you also say that the tarot is good, then I'll probably get it, too. Kenan Filan's book is the only one from those mentioned above that I bought from amazon...other works mentioned above have also fallen into my lap through other more mysterious channels.

[Spraypaint]

The only information I know of concerning this is these are mystery religions. To get into it, one must be sponsored and initiated by a house. That is the only way to get to the good stuff.

To find a house, establish a relationship with a reputable reader in the tradition and then see how it goes from there. This is what I have heard.

[jthorp]

Spraypaint, on 03 March 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

The only information I know of concerning this is these are mystery religions. To get into it, one must be sponsored and initiated by a house. That is the only way to get to the good stuff.

To find a house, establish a relationship with a reputable reader in the tradition and then see how it goes from there. This is what I have heard.

Exactly right! Find a Babalawo or someone similar who is reputable.

[son of dhamma]

Kuroyagi, on 03 March 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

I remember Bertiaux' book as being mentioned in a few of K.Grant's works and wanted to get that for some time, anyway. Legba is as far as I know the typical initiatory spirit- the one presiding over the cross-roads [and the gateway to the spirit-realm]- who is called at the beginning of nearly every working...

The initiatory spirit for priests is Loco (spirit of woods), and for priestesses Ayizan.(spirit of commerce).

[meaculpa]

I cant comment on the books, but I do have something to say about these religions. Voodoo, Santeria and the like in my eyes are very dangerous to practice on your own. One just has to have a practitioner to guide them through it. The Lwa's and Orishas have very specific expectations and needs and if you know them (by reading books for example) and not honor that - they will punish you.

I have a friend that is practicing Santeria, Palo and Hoodoo. She has given me one tool of Elegua to be able to communicate with my ancestors. But, she will tell me no more. The way she puts it - the more I teach you, the more you have to do, the more will be expected and if you dont do it - watch out! The specific ways of working with things that she has thought me is not in any book nor on the internet. There is some info, but its very, VERY incomplete and that can be dangerous on its own.

One example - if you read that Babalu Aye sometimes shows himself as a homeless person and you see one on the street and dont give him what you need to, you are in trouble. You are in trouble for the only thing that you know and you dont follow up with actions on it.

[Spraypaint]

Quote

I cant comment on the books, but I do have something to say about these religions. Voodoo, Santeria and the like in my eyes are very dangerous to practice on your own.

My impression that this is a way of life, a religion, a tradition. Not just another grimoire one reads about and uses to gain more prowess.
One is actually joining a community with it own rules and one must live up to them and the second you must want a relationship with these spirits for the sake of having one and not the benefits that come with them. It is not a path one can just liberally borrow from in an ad hoc manner. Either with it or not.

This is of course what I have heard.

The one major question I think is safe to ask about is how many different traditions are there and are the spirits with each traditions the same, and how do things differ from each one? How much do things differ from house to house within each tradition?

[meaculpa]

I would think it safe to ask about the traditions and the spirits. The danger comes when one has partial knowledge and decides to practice on their own, thinking that few books are enough. These religions are, as you said, whole communities and they are cultural. One cannot decide that they want to go into a House and eventually get initiated. They might get accepted by the members, but it can happen so that the spirits dont want them and then the initiation wont happen.

[Spraypaint]

Quote

I would think it safe to ask about the traditions and the spirits.

Thats what I am doing.
What are the differences between Vodoun, Hoodoo, Palo, Santeria and various other traditions?

Would your friend happen to know?

The only two places I think you can ask more about this would be on another forums and Lucky Mojo. Not sure about lucky Mojo (for its about a specific tradition and even mentions its not a forums to learn about ATRs)

Edited by Spraypaint, 14 May 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[Iago]

Spraypaint, on 14 May 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

Thats what I am doing.
What are the differences between Vodoun, Hoodoo, Palo, Santeria and various other traditions?

Vodoun is a ) a very old western African religion with a complex system of natural spirits; the Lwa. b ) A direct descendant of the former, merged with the Roman Catholicism that ruled its homeland of Haiti. Also in Louisiana.

Hoodoo/conjure is a practice of folk magic derived mainly from Louisiana voodoo, not necessarily with the religious structure.

Santeria has similar origins to Haitian voodoo, but arose in Cuba from the Afro-Cuban population's religious practices blending with Catholicism.

I dunno about Palo. Wikipedia it or sumthin!

Edited by Iago, 14 May 2012 - 11:22 PM.

[Caliban]

Palo is similar but more ancestor-oriented and more overtly sorcerous. It developed mostly from Bantu beliefs in Spanish colonies like Cuba, so it is on generally cordial terms with Santeria or Lucumi, though the latter are more of Yoruba origins. Like Santeria, the practice is organized in "houses" based on a familial structure, with a Padrino or Madrino presiding. For various reasons, it has a somewhat darker and more dangerous reputation even within the Afro-Caribbean diaspora, but moreso among mainstream Catholics, as I don't believe it bothers much with the veneer of venerating saints.

[Spraypaint]

Iago, on 14 May 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Vodoun is a) a very old western African religion with a complex system of natural spirits; the Lwa. A direct descendant of the former, merged with the Roman Catholicism that ruled its homeland of Haiti. Also in Louisiana.

Hoodoo/conjure is a practice of folk magic derived mainly from Louisiana voodoo, not necessarily with the religious structure.

Santeria has similar origins to Haitian voodoo, but arose in Cuba from the Afro-Cuban population's religious practices blending with Catholicism.

I dunno about Palo. Wikipedia it or sumthin!

I know more then I am letting on.

I'm just asking to confirm some things I read else where.

[Caliban]

Try not to withhold in discussions, even when seeking confirmation. Other readers may want to confirm the same points, and it brings more to the thread.

[Spraypaint]

That depends. Will you allow me to mention the other forums where I got it from?

Working within the rules here. Sometimes I don't tell everything I know for certain reasons and that being one of them.

Plus it is a mystery religion after all.

If you want to be pointed in a generally good direction, give me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

Edited by Spraypaint, 15 May 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[meaculpa]

Iago, on 14 May 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Hoodoo/conjure is a practice of folk magic derived mainly from Louisiana voodoo, not necessarily with the religious structure.

Not at all. Hoodoo has its roots in West African practices as well. The difference is, when the slaves arrived in USA the South was mostly protestant. They couldnt syncretize (sp plz?) their Gods with Saints as it happened in Haiti and elsewhere. They have borrowed some from the Native Americans, but its mostly Christian folk magic. They were all practicing within the Christian religion up until recently with the whole New Age thing and everyone borrowing from Hoodoo.

A lot work with the Psalms.

Petitioning saints didnt come in until Catholics got involved and influenced some practitioners.

So, shortly....that would cover it.

[Iago]

Awesome, I stand corrected (and yup you spelled syncretize right )

[Spraypaint]

http://www.afrikaworld.net/afrel/
http://www.africanbelief.com/

[Spraypaint]

Radio show about various traditions soon, or so I heard.

http://www.kimbisa.org/

[Spraypaint]

http://www.bookult.o...ean%20Magic.pdf