47 replies to this topic

[Spraypaint]

I am having trouble evoking an entity/ I mean I am doing what the instructions say (or think I am) and I am wondering what subtle nuances I may be overlooking or not comprehending.

Ideas? Suggestions?

If you are wondering, I been trying to do this about a week so far.

[R. Eugene Laughlin]

I surmise that you lack the proper foundation for that kind of work, but you know that already. You also know what all each of the regular posters here are likely to say to this inquiry, because you post this sort of thing frequently and have read their responses enough to be able to predict what most of them might say, if they have any patience for you left at all.

I know what your personal struggles are and I am sympathetic, but it's time for someone to inform you hat your queries have becoming thematically repetitive and tiresome. Give yourself advice this time, and take it for a change.

Edited by R. Eugene Laughlin, 19 February 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

You have no trouble evoking. You have already evoked a response from Eugene and another from me.

[Caliban]

It's not time for you to be evoking. There are other skills to develop which lay the foundation on which successful conjuration is based.

Normally, I advise that this sort of work is best undertaken after one has acquired a certain degree of self-realization - called in magical literature the "invocation of the higher genius" or "knowledge and conversation of the holy guardian angel".

It is technically possible to perform this work sooner, as the keys are provided through working the Spheres of the Moon and Mercury.

But launching into evocation from that position means being dependent upon higher spirits to be your defense against lower spirits, and it is far better to be able to meet them from a place of balance and self-awareness (as well as sensitivity to the unseen and a command of the principal skills of ritual magic) so as to be your own defender.

The crash course in self-development to this degree is a six-month intensive retreat where you literally do nothing but devote yourself to the Work. In this day and age, it is not at all practical.

Instead, take the time - most likely a number of years - to grow into this. You'll know when it's appropriate. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are there already because you want to be. Take your time.

[null]

Sheesh, I wouldn't call it that hard, I made my first evocation not even knowing all the technicalities under the ritual and it did work, only I couldn't speak to it...hm hmm hm.
I would say it is best to do it in a higher state of mind, possibly having the authority of God like Koetting states, but being impossible without that, it is not true it is... You can get Koetting's book Evoking Eternity, there he goes into deep why his first attempts didn't work and what else should you do. There are many other that helped me, but I especially liked his approach. (technicalities, heh...)

[Shadow-Gnostikoi]

Caliban never said it was impossible to do it at that stage. He only said that it would be foolish and dangerous to attempt it without a certain level that Spraypaint clearly hasn't reached yet. Now that's the problem with the internet and all these books being published today. People can't distinguish between primary school classes and university level lectures anymore.

[null]

Well depends on what he is evoking...if he is evoking elementals, angels ... he is safer than with demons...and I doubt something would go wrongly.
There are a lot of people that had many successful evocations and didn't attempt HGA conversation.

[Shadow-Gnostikoi]

Yeah well, I would say that similarly, in Taoism the Hundred Days of the Taoists, aimed at retaining and transmuting semen for a hundred days is succesfully done by many beginners, but it still remains an Adept practice. Many have been known to end up taking anti-psychotic medication because they weren't ready.

[null]

Shadow-Gnostikoi, on 20 February 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Yeah well, I would say that similarly, in Taoism the Hundred Days of the Taoists, aimed at retaining and transmuting semen for a hundred days is succesfully done by many beginners, but it still remains an Adept practice. Many have been known to end up taking anti-psychotic medication because they weren't ready.

Can you demistify what do you find troublesome in that practice of evoking please?
It takes a lot more than to see a ghost to go insane, and that really isn't a legitimate argument for not evoking, because then you'll never do it.
Btw, why would beneficial and benign beings be unsafe to summon?

[null]

I thought somehow here voidgazing summed it up: (correct me if wrong voidgazing )

voidgazing, on 15 February 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

To be brutally honest, I think that was an error caused by an essentially materialsist/object based view of the universe. I think the art of magic has produced a better model since then.

In any case, there is a good way around the identity/drawing the wrong one thing. First get the vibe of the spirit really good, understand the thing. Use that as the 'name' in your call. Much like standing in a crowded train station, calling out "yo, Bob" will get you a lot of Bobs, but calling out "Robert Paulson from Idaho with the love of motorcycles and dandruff problem" is going to get that one specific Bob.

So in this way, just a name is pretty damn useless, and of course you're chancing it, because in general whether you mean to or not, you will be adding all that other crap. If your call out loud is "Bobrael, lord of the seven tablets of Mu" but you don't know in your bones just what Bobrael is all about and what the seven tablets of Mu are...

If your mind is cluttered up, you are really calling "Bobrael, oh god I hope I'm not summoning forth some eldritch horror I just need help with this crossword clue" then what the spirits are gonna hear is "useless phoneme / eldritch horror".

If your mind isn't cluttered up, but you also don't know what Bobrael is about, you are standing in the train station screaming "Anybodyyyyyyy" because (and I know this is not in keeping with many an old tome) the name as written, as sounded out, is useless. Go try to figure out what the ants in your backyard are saying to each other with their pheremones. I'll wait OK now that you're back, you are probably realizing you lack the necessary perceptual apparatus to understand ant pee as coherent communication. You are an ant to the spirits, see? They can understand the conceptual part you are throwing out there, but they cannot even hear you make the set of noises you associate with them. That isn't to say the names as writ are without value- I'm oversimplifying a bit here.

Now think for a moment about this symbol: @. You know that thing has no intrinsic meaning whatsoever. You know what it means, there is an echo, an analogue if you like, in your mind that matches up to the one in mine, but it has nothing to do with the shape and everything to do with the convention we've all agreed upon when taught the symbol. The important part, then, isn't the form of the symbol, but the meaning. This is exactly how a name works.

Now, if you don't learn, deep down in a true way, what Bobrael, Angel of Silly Hats is all about- the spirit of the spirit is the name- you aren't going to be able to hold its name in your mind. So you can't call it.

You can't even really see the damn thing- if you do come into contact, you will only see the pieces you understand. So if you've spent your magical career learning to hold exclusively icky scary shit in your mind, if you meet say an astral kitten, you will see sharp fangs and claws and the part where it is really cute and cuddly will go right over your head.

Hell, lemme lay this one on you guys: if you are reading this thinking "why the heck would I want to see an astral kitten/summon up Elmo from sesame street, that is too girly/wussy for me! I got into this to summon DEMONS, Yo!" you are going to have a great deal of extra trouble banishing, and you are going to fail to understand so much. This is a form of self limitation best avoided, IMO.

See, you're a magician now- and if you want to be a good one, you need to understand. The more modes of being you can grok, internalize, the stronger you are. The fewer, the weaker. So if you want to be a Heavy Metal Satanist Badass magician, go watch some My Little Pony and don't come back until you have learned to like it, motherfucker. Otherwise you are a predictable, static being who's True Name is "meat".

[Shadow-Gnostikoi]

Alright. This is a quote from Papal Magic: Occult practices within the Catholic church.

Quote

In the case of demonic evocations, one confronts a sickening manifestation of evil. As any exorcist will tell you, the experience of facing— and struggling with—these forces is tantamount to a waking nightmare, one that seems endless and at times almost hopeless. To deliberately evoke these forces, then, one must be possessed of a powerful character, unshakable, determined, and courageous: precisely the same personality that is expected of the exorcist. And this leads us to the next injunction to be found in the grimoire: that the operator must take the attitude towards the demons that a master takes towards a servant—the assumption that one is in charge, in power, and that the other is wholly dependent and eager to carry out any orders. This, of course, is the same attitude to be taken by the Catholic priest during an exorcism. At first this seems like a paradox. First, one arranges the ceremony—the magic circle, the candles, the incense, the incantations—to “trick” the unconscious mind into behaving a certain way. Yet, at the same time, one must take a completely authoritarian attitude towards the spirits thus evoked. One must be the analyst and the patient, simultaneously. That is why the performance of ceremonial magic is not for everyone.

Now although he's speaking of demons here, I want you to pay attention to the attitude required towards evocation. It's not easy. It's precise and it can easily go wrong. Anyways, why be careful even when summoning angels and stuff? Well, being attached to an entity is not a good thing, even if it's one of the Forces of Light. It might mean well, but what it will bring will not necessarily be good for you. Otherwise why don't we all summon Archangels and channel them with Ouiji boards? Because it's not safe, and it takes mastery to keep these forces in check. You're dealing with a world beyond our own. A world that is "more real" in a sense. Things do not necessarily work the way you expect them to, meaning Angels = safe.

It's not that you should be so scared of this stuff that you never do it. But be aware of your level, and approach things cautiously. Master the different steps that are outlined, because they aren't there just to piss you off. They're there for a reason, and a good one at that.

[null]

Shadow-Gnostikoi, on 20 February 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Alright. This is a quote from Papal Magic: Occult practices within the Catholic church.



Now although he's speaking of demons here, I want you to pay attention to the attitude required towards evocation. It's not easy. It's precise and it can easily go wrong. Anyways, why be careful even when summoning angels and stuff? Well, being attached to an entity is not a good thing, even if it's one of the Forces of Light. It might mean well, but what it will bring will not necessarily be good for you. Otherwise why don't we all summon Archangels and channel them with Ouiji boards? Because it's not safe, and it takes mastery to keep these forces in check. You're dealing with a world beyond our own. A world that is "more real" in a sense. Things do not necessarily work the way you expect them to, meaning Angels = safe.

It's not that you should be so scared of this stuff that you never do it. But be aware of your level, and approach things cautiously. Master the different steps that are outlined, because they aren't there just to piss you off. They're there for a reason, and a good one at that.

lol, chatolic church and demons

anyway...what you say from the text, calling it a necessary attitude is what I stressed while mentioning Koetting's book, that it is helpful you gain the divine authority, that is similar to having a connection with your HGA or similar to middle pillar as he says. It is crucial with demons, and helpful with others (but you won't need to command with a sword an angel).

As for saying angels are also not beneficial, ...some of them are scary, and can be misunderstood and are more like demons, although I have never evoked these, ... but I have a relationship with Michael, have evoked him and nothing went wrong. ? I don't know in what way you mean unhealthy relationship?? I've heard so much experienced people evoking archangels, and I evoked one, nothing went wrong, neither have I heard someone say archangels aren't beneficial...or mentioning a wicked relationship.

Where did you learn archangels can work bad for you? did they do that for you, where?

[Inge]

Spraypaint, on 19 February 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

I am having trouble evoking an entity/ I mean I am doing what the instructions say (or think I am) and I am wondering what subtle nuances I may be overlooking or not comprehending.

Ideas? Suggestions?

If you are wondering, I been trying to do this about a week so far.

Instructions? There are instructions? Would you mind to share what references you are using? Just the basics would be great.

[Inge]

null, on 20 February 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

Well depends on what he is evoking...if he is evoking elementals, angels ... he is safer than with demons...and I doubt something would go wrongly.
There are a lot of people that had many successful evocations and didn't attempt HGA conversation.

However, on certain levels one would recognize the elements, angels, and such as demons, accordingly. When evoking, one should know every possible provocation from each entity. It is sometimes, too, one thing to be innocently provoking and yet to be purposefully angling for results and targeting specific angles/demons.

[null]

well..I pray Michael for courage...I don't see he is particularly angry about that, it's in his domain and angels are here to help if we need it. As to gaining material wealth there are entities that could do that not being angry also. I think you have to have a pure approach and a corresponding entity, I don't see a problem. But please...

[Inge]

Sometimes our individual positions in living life as experience has allowed us keeps us from seeing the potential 'other sides' of such, though. This is important to always keep in mind.

[null]

would you like to share an example? why should a beneficial rite in any way go bad? anyway, that must be the fault of the lack of concentration, but in general, there is no base to be so. don't take this as some sort of a quarrel, I'm just interested.

[Spraypaint]

Caliban, on 20 February 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

It's not time for you to be evoking. There are other skills to develop which lay the foundation on which successful conjuration is based.

Normally, I advise that this sort of work is best undertaken after one has acquired a certain degree of self-realization - called in magical literature the "invocation of the higher genius" or "knowledge and conversation of the holy guardian angel".

It is technically possible to perform this work sooner, as the keys are provided through working the Spheres of the Moon and Mercury.

But launching into evocation from that position means being dependent upon higher spirits to be your defense against lower spirits, and it is far better to be able to meet them from a place of balance and self-awareness (as well as sensitivity to the unseen and a command of the principal skills of ritual magic) so as to be your own defender.

The crash course in self-development to this degree is a six-month intensive retreat where you literally do nothing but devote yourself to the Work. In this day and age, it is not at all practical.

Instead, take the time - most likely a number of years - to grow into this. You'll know when it's appropriate. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are there already because you want to be. Take your time.

Eugene mentioned it correctly. I do agree with what he said (which is why I haven't logged in and trying not to.) but he also mentioned as to why I may ask.

The point of this rite is to summon a being to protect me from lower spirits, which I have no problem drawing towards me. Its not a matter I want to be there, but a case of needing to be there. I figure if I can control a higher spirit through evocation, then I can control the spirits that have been hassling me, or least learn how to.

The spirit in question (and ritual) is experimental and is a composite of many spirits you may already work with, or if I understand properly, worship. A meta-spirit of sorts.

Thats the other variable I didn't mention.

As for the keys for this (through Moon and Mercury), I appreciate it. I have a grimoire that has very simplified means to contacting these spheres, so further advice concerning this should along the lines of my own to supply.

Quote

Sheesh, I wouldn't call it that hard, I made my first evocation not even knowing all the technicalities under the ritual and it did work, only I couldn't speak to it...hm hmm hm.

It seems not my ability to do so is the problem, but my "aim" is the trouble.

[null]

ah I see, you have the ability but somehow meta spirits don't show up. Maybe they don't want to be science rats...if you know what I mean. You could summon an entity who can give you info about how to banish those unwanted spirits yourself, maybe try that way?
I know Alice knows how to banish

[voidgazing]

Quote

I don't know in what way you mean unhealthy relationship??

Summon forth Grover from Sesame Street, and you can learn that A is for Apple and if there are two apples here, two over there, that is four! four apples, ah ah ah! Great! Grover will now teach you Near and Far! No? There is more to life? You don't want all your dreams to involve dance numbers about the alphabet? Grover doesn't know what you mean, new friend, and would rather discuss the letter R!

This is like, I dunno- people who dress their pets in costumes. That cat is hilarious, to them. To the cat, this process is uncomfortable, incomprehensible, and annoying. Top hats and tails are not relevant to cats. The people, they love the cat. They will spend thousands of dollars to help the cat with its knee problem. Feed it. Pet it. This is not the result of hostility on the people's parts, see? They mean well- they are having fun with Mr Winkleypoo! FUN! WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!

So the cat knows these beings with which it can communicate and interact on one level, where their worlds intersect. Its a Venn diagram, see? Cats don't benefit from being dressed in costumes, and humans don't say thank you for the headless mouse in the bed. Both are meant with only the purest of kind intentions.

The danger in evoking is that you got to make sure neither party tries to dress the other up in a cute little outfit, to stretch the metaphor reaaaaally thin and wave it around...entrancingly.... [pounce!]