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Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and the Protect IP Act


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#21 voidgazing

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:15 PM

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Is it OK to pirate software, books, movies, and music because the major media companies are so rich?

No. While capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with both art and scholarship (by inherently restricting the audience to those who can afford it, the opposite aim of an artist or delver into mysteries who publishes and wants people to see it), that does not mean we can ignore the fact that it is the current system.

So- my favorite musicians and writers, they have bills to pay just like me. They get good at what they do by doing it, all day- just like I get good at what I do by doing it all day. To make that possible in a capitalist society, they need to be paid. I am not OK with ripping them off, partially because I picture myself looking them in the eye ("thanks for recording that song, it got me through some tough times, but also f*&% you"), and partially because I don't want them to say "no new book/record this year, I had to get a day job".

I get upset when people misappropriate OC content because they don't credit the site or the authors, and that is bullshit. I work hard on what I write, and... it isn't that I want money, or even credit necessarily, but that the act of the theft is a sort of aggression, and it makes me want to grind faces to dust for the effrontery.
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#22 Morrigan

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 09:53 PM

Many business are turning towards free online content as a marketing tool. Several bands release free albums to drum p interest in their work and draw people to see them in concert where a bulk of their income is made. Some publishing companies offer partial chapters or shorter works free online and require payment for completed or larger works. Webcomics are another example of such a strategy. Free comics are posted online and merchandise, hard copy books, and special memberships are offered to bring in the cash. Several successful artists have made careers in this field.
However there are goods purchased. This idea of getting everything for free is tied to a larger trend of devaluing entertainment. Many folks now expect everything that amuses them to be free and scream the tired troupes of "corporate demon, fascist capitalist, and rich douchebags" when they are expected to pay for a good. We're seeing a change in what we value in society. Comfort culture vs. independence is a tough dichotomy to navigate. This bill and the reactions to it are prime examples of the gulf of understanding between the different ideological camps.
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#23 Alice

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:30 AM

I have two reasons why piracy is not strictly unethical and bring a new perspective.

First, credit where credit is due is a big factor, as has been mentioned. Indeed, my mate is currently producing a free blog of her short stories and we ask that if any part of it is reproduced, the author's name and a link to the source be included.

The second, and much more important, is who you're stealing from. It is wrong to steal from an artist. Violating the copyright of a self-published book, a privately produced music album, or a painting is stealing from an artist. These are people who are giving of themselves for the sake of their art. As Voidgazing says, in this society such people must charge money for what they do, or lose the ability to do it. I faced exactly that conflict some time ago, I had been teaching and doing spellwork for free, and had to start charging money for it. Most people understood, but a few attacked me for it, for needing something in return for my art.

You can't steal from a thief. Music is liberated from the record labels, who have already stolen it from the artists. Most music artists with the record labels get an expense account and their bills paid for them, they don't get a percentage, so it doesn't matter to them how much money gets made on the album. When the record label drops them, they end up broke. Several artists have even been sued by the record label for unauthorized concert performances.

I would never pirate the works of say Abney Park, but Trent Reznor has pirated his OWN music to snub the record label.

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#24 Qryztufre

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 05:10 PM

Imperial Arts said:

Just a few weeks ago, we saw several people here get upset over duplicated content from this site posted without permission elsewhere. The fact that the material was copied and pasted without permission merited some sort of action on the part of this site's manager. That tells me the folks here don't like it when someone steals their (not-for-profit) articles and posts them up elsewhere.

Why, then, is it OK for people to steal material that is produced for profit and then distribute it freely? Why are you so adamantly against having your own articles taken, but so agreeable to having other people's stuff taken?

At the time the OC's content was being 'stolen' there was a slight difference. We had our RSS feeds set to send the entire content of each post, so technically speaking they were not breaking the law (however they were breaking several guidelines from advertisers & hosts, not to mention ethical reasoning). The difference between what happened here & what is happening with the law is that even snippets of text can produce legal action, so even quoting bits & pieces can get a site into trouble. Also with this pending law, LINKING to stolen content can get a site into trouble.

It is indeed a fine line... but this law is crossing it.

#25 A Rogue Spirit

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 06:39 PM

So...congress votes on this tomorrow...http://sopastrike.com/ Good luck to all of us!

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#26 Iago

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 02:21 AM

I hope all you United Statesmen and women wrote in to your congressmen. I'd have done the same, but I don't think the U.S. Houses of Congress care too much for the useless support of foreigners.

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#27 Alice

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:22 AM

Perhaps Occult Corpus should participate in the strike. I'm just hearing about it now but I'm going to pass it on to a friend who administrates a few dozen sites.

EDIT: Add http://art-of-creation.proboards.com to the list. I am taking my board offline for the day when I sign out tonight.

May you find what you seek,
Alice

Edited by Landra, 18 January 2012 - 03:50 AM.
New info


#28 Spraypaint

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 02:13 PM

It seems this is about copyright and patent law.

If this is the case, me thinks the best way is to turn the law against those it is intended to protect as a form of protest.

Tell me, has the English language been copyrighted yet?

The idea behind this is to gain rights over things the corporations have not thought of copyrighting that they use every day and then sue the pants off them every time they use it till they comply.

Actually, if you want a real protest, pick a word to file a trademark or copy right to, then write a story about the experiences you go through during the process (or write a story about how you invented the word), then copy right that story.

The result is if any one who uses that word is using a part of your work without permission, which means then you can take legal action against them.

Edited by Spraypaint, 18 January 2012 - 03:09 PM.

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#29 A Rogue Spirit

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

Spraypaint said:

It seems this is about copyright and patent law.

If this is the case, me thinks the best way is to turn the law against those it is intended to protect as a form of protest.

Tell me, has the English language been copyrighted yet?

@

The idea behind this is to gain rights over things the corporations have not thought of copyrighting that they use every day and then sue the pants off them every time they use it till they comply.

Actually, if you want a real protest, pick a word to file a trademark or copy right to, then write a story about the experiences you go through during the process (or write a story about how you invented the word), then copy right that story.

The result is if any one who uses that word is using a part of your work without permission, which means then you can take legal action against them.

That is actually an amusing idea. I hope someone tries it. lol

@ Landra- If they do that would be fine by me.

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#30 Caliban

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:16 PM

On the surface it appears to be about copyright and patent protection. But laws are already in place for that.

Here is what I wrote in reply to an article which appeared on - appropriately - CNNMoney:

Quote

Newspapers, radio, television - all of these mass media fell pretty swiftly into the hands of the Haves, to sell cars and detergent and microwavable baby food to the Have-Nots.

Now along comes the Internet. It is a distributed system, decentralized, essentially non-hierarchal, and the media magnates, including our gracious hosts [by which I was refering to AOL Time Warner, not Q and AC], are pooping their pants over a mass-media that they don't control.

So, after seeing things like webloggers beginning to attract the kind of critical accliam that used to be reserved for reputable print journalists, when there was such a thing, and that decentralized social media can make regime change in Tunisia and oppose drug lords in Mexico, it becomes more intolerable still that
the internet cannot be owned.

So it must be controlled. Must be. So the magnates do what they do when the people are unaccountably not obeying their wishes. They take their big sacks of money to Washington in an election year and say, "This must be controlled!"

Thing is, in this case what we have is the greatest instrument of genuine free expression and democracy since moveable type. Back in the day, people could be - and were - arrested and burned alive if they had the balls to print, say, the Bible in the vernacular.

But with a decentralized, distributed network of global communication, what you can do even better than sell microwavable baby-food is organize resistance to arbitrary oppression.

And that isn't anything the Haves like either. The situtation makes far more sense to them when freedom and justice are something you can buy. Because then they can sell it. Which is how the world works.

Which is why these two laws are framed in terms far more broad and ill-defined than would be required to simply protect copyright (which the Haves are busily working to gnaw away from under living authors and their descendents on the other side of the curtain).

These laws need to be broad and vague in order to try to grapple with the real issue - Free Information. That is what these laws are about. And it is a thing that people value so much more than microwavable baby-food that they will not let these laws pass.

Sorry, CNNMoney McFortune. Not even your formidable spin can win this one.

If you want to see what "the end of the World" coming in 2012 actually means, look no further. The system is revealed as broken and its attempts to repair itself to assure its continued control are also failing. What comes to replace it is not yet determined. That is up to us - all of us - and we'd be wise to take our thinking to a higher plane than personal material benefit in deciding what that will be.

I could have said the same thing about our recent discussions of the Occupy movement - something else that CNN Money McFortune has poured a lot of effort (in terms of how the World Works, that means a lot of money) into discrediting.

Where is this going? I haven't the faintest idea, and honestly I am afraid to look. So instead, I am re-reading Erasmus' In Praise of Folly and thinking very hard about this between now and November. And, in the meantime, contacting my senators and representatives.


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#31 Spraypaint

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:37 PM

What is copyright law?

Nothing more then the debate of who owns language.

That is what its about.

And to me, the legal right to own language is the legal right to own others.

Would you agree or disagree?
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#32 Iago

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:57 PM

I would agree entirely.

The concept of "intellectual property" is a strange one, because while it could be said that a physical object (regular "property") can only be in the posession of one person or party at a time, how many people can simultaneously posess an idea? I'll give you a hint, it's between"no-one" and "everyone."

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#33 Spraypaint

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:01 PM

If you agree with the premise that trying to own language is to own others, would you also agree the words trying own others be considered "slavery"?

Another question for you.

Isn't the US government considered "We The People?"

If so, technically we authored that law.

I'm betting the corporations and the politicians who wrote it forgot to copyright it.

If this is correct, we can copyright the law and sue anyone who claims to be upholding copyright law (in accordance to SOPA) without our permission.

Quote

That is actually an amusing idea. I hope someone tries it. lol

An even more amusing idea would be write to congresspersons or representatives who signed this law, get a letter back with their signature on it, turn it into a piece of art with the signature as the focal point, then the next time they write a piece of crap legislation, sue them for copyright infringement for misuse of your intellectual property.
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#34 Qryztufre

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:13 PM

Spraypaint said:

If this is correct, we can copyright the law and sue anyone who claims to be upholding copyright law (in accordance to SOPA) without our permission.

You would have to be able to prove you wrote it before it got plastered all over the internet.

#35 Spraypaint

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:15 PM

Qryztufre said:

You would have to be able to prove you wrote it before it got plastered all over the internet.

Write two versions.

One for public release, one for trial.
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#36 Iago

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:30 PM

Spraypaint, you're either a looney, or a genius, or both. I love this idea. I'm going to look for the appropriate cognate in Canadian law (although since our government is not "We The People" it probably belongs to the Queen or some B.S. like that).

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#37 voidgazing

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:26 PM

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If this is correct, we can copyright the law and sue anyone who claims to be upholding copyright law (in accordance to SOPA) without our permission.

That... isn't how copyright works. What I just wrote there? Copyright is mine! See how I said that? I didn't need to. Even this sentence, as I type it, magically is mine. You are thinking of how patents work. The type of trolling you speak of is indeed both possible and lucrative for technology companies. But useless for copyright stuff.

Caliban has this absolutely dead to rights: this is about controlling ideas. He who controls them, controls the minds that consume them. Astroturfing, mis and disinformation can only get you so far, and good ol' censorship has its place.

***
Now, legally, sure, all you little pinko hippies have the right to say whatever you want, god as my witness. And you can say it, you can say whatever goddamn unamerican commie bullshit you want in your sit ins and your love ins and your fuck ins and all that. That is absolutely fine.

What you can't do, though, is get on Barbara Walters or Tom Brokaw and spew your little peacenik manifestos. Because they aren't going to give you the air time. You can write a letter to the editor, but nobody will print it. You can try to call yourself a journalist, but the NYT isn't going to hire your sorry ass or print a word of your crap. The best you're gonna do is to print up a little pamphlet. Hell, maybe you can write a book nobody will sell and nobody will read but subversive little fucks like you. Actually, that would be alright, you go ahead and do that, do a long-form text based circle jerk until the end of goddamn time.

See, nobody needs to say "you can't say that". All they need to do is say "you can't say that on my privately owned newspaper, radio station, or TV network". Public TV? Sure! GO RIGHT AHE-AAAHAAAAHAAAA. I'm sorry, I can't keep a straight face on that one. There are exactly two people who watch anything that isn't Sesame Street, and they are terrified of pissing off The Public, who, as they will tell you, pay for all those shows about great northern storks or whateverthehell.

'Course, there are about three such nobodies, these days, who own all that. But that's private enterprise, what made this country great!

Interwhat, now? Some thing with computers? So what? Wait- wait a minute now, this is ours right? This thing is American? Who owns it? I mean... who do we lean on to shut down these page-webs or whatnot? Nobody?!? Nobody like actually nobody?

We need to do something about this! I don't know- figure out a way to get em when they step out of line!
This is a postcard sent from the dining room of the HMS Russel's Teapot. Wish you were here- the band is spot on tonight, and we're having "all the way down" turtle soup!

#38 Spraypaint

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:48 PM

The mass and main stream media corporations (who I suspect lobbied to have this law written) are those who make money by peddling intangible products.

What makes an intangible product (such as information) considered a good buy?

The legitimacy or perceived legitimacy of information provided to consumers (or in this case viewers).

What if this information's perceived quality of legitimacy from main stream sources was considered was bought into question?

It would hurt them and their profits.

Might even drive them out of business or open up the market for new sources.

So what would hurt this legitimacy?

Well, a long time ago (during the time newspapers were the only mass media in existence) there was two types of newspapers.

The premium brand for rich snobs and the newspapers for everyone else. Think difference in first class and coach.
What happened? The cheaper newspapers knowing how journalism works, began to feed the higher class papers false stories, hoaxes that were very sensationalized that the editors wouldn't bother to check the validity of it due to how "hot" the topic was. When the high class newspaper published those stories, the others rags would write an expose on how shitty the high class newspapers were in their journalism. This hurt sales and the low class papers were the only ones left on the market due to their ability to manufacture "legitimacy" at some one else's expense.

Now there is this guy name Joey Skagg's who makes a living hoaxing the media.

All he does is write a press release and watch the sparks fly.

If he can do this as satire, we can do the same as a form of protest.

If you want to get really devious, make up a story, have the original stamped by a notary public, feed the media the hoax, then sue them for publishing your story for copy right violations.

Edited by Spraypaint, 18 January 2012 - 09:23 PM.

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#39 mrblack

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 09:21 PM

If this law passes, it's the government/corporations who will have the most to gain.
It's basically "censorship" at its' finest.....

BTW, I've blacked out my magick blog, TOHO blog, my bands blog, my personal domain,
and my FB to show my support. :D

#40 Alice

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:39 AM

Thank you Mr. Black. The more of us shut down, the more people will notice. So far it looks like people are definitely taking notice; looking at some the news today.

http://www.chicagotr...0,5620526.story

Very well said Caliban.

The way copyright law works, if it comes out of your head you automatically own it, so unfortunately there's no game to be played on that end.

May you find what you seek,
Alice





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