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Has any one worked with any of E.A. Koetting's material?


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#21 Morrigan

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:57 PM

Here is a slightly more balanced and mature article. One that actually discusses the occult rather than slipping in ad hominem.
http://fraterbarrabb...son-avenue.html
Cast Wide the Circle: Place for my musings and the occasional book review.
The Art of Stealing Fire : My Online Magical Journal
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Leave our bellies full
They sing out I am going to stand my ground
You rise to me and I'll blow you down
I am going to stand my ground
You rise to me and I'll blow you down

#22 voidgazing

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:00 PM

I've sent Thad a link to that amazingly awesome post.
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#23 RoseRed

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:45 PM

You can be rather inspirational, dude. Today was a good day to read that.
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#24 Tenebrae

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:18 AM

I've spoken to him a few times through Facebook chat, and like others here have already stated...he's pretty down to earth despite the theatrics presented within his videos. If you follow the podcasts between him and Nate, he blatantly admits to the fact that he's a hustler. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that; isn't it everyone's dream to make a living doing what they love? He just so happens to have accomplished what so few ever manage to achieve. Many seem to have issues with him selling information, but doesn't a martial arts instructor do the same, doesn't a private tutor sell their knowledge and experience, aren't there countless occult books published from many others doing the exact same thing...? The only difference seems to be that he's, as he claims, a hustler...promoting himself aggressively in comparison to everyone else. This seems to blind people to the fact that he's not the only one putting books out there...selling occult information.

I haven't bought any of his books...but from what I've read on the forums and other locations, people seem to believe he knows what he's talking about; even the satire page on Facebook has at least one moderator who says the same, but simply disapproves of his salesman attitude. Anyone can come to information on their own through internal work using their own intelligence and spiritual exploration...everyone here knows this. In my eyes, what he does is simply provide information for those who are too lazy, impatient, struggling, or simply curious: you pay for a shortcut.

I can only speculate here, but this may actually be the reason why so many amongst his community respond with such ravenously defensive attitudes when they come across criticism. Many of these individuals were struggling, or too impatient, to spiritually ascend on their own; through Eric, they started producing actual results. So, it makes sense that they would be so quick to defend something that has helped them get beyond their personal hurdles...especially if they had been struggling quite a bit prior to purchasing his work. You'll notice that some of the more knowledgeable folk on the BALG forum aren't so quick to fly off the handle whenever they come across BALG criticism and take it with a more passive demeanor.

Basically, from my infrequent interactions, he seems to be a down to earth individual that's simply making a living doing what he loves. Personally, I respect that...it's something I've wanted to do throughout the course of my life and the very reason I'm making my Fear Fetishes. To find it distasteful, no matter how theatrical he may present it, would be to find my own goals distasteful. Furthermore...isn't this what everyone hopes to achieve?

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#25 voidgazing

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:25 PM

Well, no. That's the core of my own aversion here, actually- I'm disgusted with capitalism and what it does to people and what it does to the things they create. Magic, to me, is a thing to stand in reverential awe of, a pearl without price. A gift like the ability to make music or write stories- a genius rare and special. So it rubs me the wrong way when someone says its $19.95.

Picture me this, I want you to meet Jesus on a street corner, he's there to sell you the good news, saaaaalllvation from the very fiery pits of Hell and only five easy payments! No money down!

Wait! Wait...

Not your bag son? Allllrightey step this way, I got a cat you just neeeed to meet! This here is my buddy Siddy G. Now Siddy here, he might not look like much but you give him a downpayment, four fitty, he'll give you a sweetheart rate on not suffering! That's right jack, he knows the secret to ending the suffering of every creature in the universe that can afford it!

Fuck Mammon and fuck McMagic too.
This is a postcard sent from the dining room of the HMS Russel's Teapot. Wish you were here- the band is spot on tonight, and we're having "all the way down" turtle soup!

#26 Morrigan

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:59 PM

Exactly VG. That's it on the nose.

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To find it distasteful, no matter how theatrical he may present it, would be to find my own goals distasteful.

I think there are several miles, a few, leagues, and the journey that Q started that lead the Enterprise to find the Borg, between you selling fear fetishes and the E.A. does. In a good way. I share the same conerns as the author of the blog I posted. Eventually some media outlet is going to get ahold of E.A. and what will that mean for the rest of us. I'm sure he is a good guy with the best of intentions, and I'll not tear anyone down for making a proft from the work. However it depends on the method of sale. E.A. sell his trade fine. We've got professonal sorcerers on thie page who do their business and never ruffle a feather. Why? Because they don't sell overpriced toys and trinkets. They don't hawk their wears on the net with a general disdain for the community. E.A. does. I've never heard a bad word about him personally but I don't like how he runs his business and what it might mean for the wider occult community.
I'm just waiting to see him on a reality show.
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The Art of Stealing Fire : My Online Magical Journal
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These tree trunks, these stream beds
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#27 Tenebrae

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:32 AM

View Postvoidgazing, on 04 August 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Well, no. That's the core of my own aversion here, actually- I'm disgusted with capitalism and what it does to people and what it does to the things they create. Magic, to me, is a thing to stand in reverential awe of, a pearl without price. A gift like the ability to make music or write stories- a genius rare and special. So it rubs me the wrong way when someone says its $19.95.

Picture me this, I want you to meet Jesus on a street corner, he's there to sell you the good news, saaaaalllvation from the very fiery pits of Hell and only five easy payments! No money down!

Wait! Wait...

Not your bag son? Allllrightey step this way, I got a cat you just neeeed to meet! This here is my buddy Siddy G. Now Siddy here, he might not look like much but you give him a downpayment, four fitty, he'll give you a sweetheart rate on not suffering! That's right jack, he knows the secret to ending the suffering of every creature in the universe that can afford it!

Fuck Mammon and fuck McMagic too.

On the flip side of that...what do most artists do?

The majority make a living through their talent; it's very rare that you'll come across one who works for free...and when you do, they're not usually all that great.

- When someone writes a story, they typically sell it in the form of a book...
- When someone makes music, they typically sell it in the form of an album...

So, what music and storytelling are you referring to when trying to make the comparison here...because most artists make money through their talent. I mean, I'm pretty sure that even Beethoven performed for a living did he not? You're giving me examples of things that you believe to be akin to magick and these things are sold by the majority who possess the talent. It's rare that you'll come across exceptions; even more rare when these exceptions are actually good.

View PostMorrigan, on 04 August 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

Exactly VG. That's it on the nose.

I think there are several miles, a few, leagues, and the journey that Q started that lead the Enterprise to find the Borg, between you selling fear fetishes and the E.A. does. In a good way. I share the same conerns as the author of the blog I posted. Eventually some media outlet is going to get ahold of E.A. and what will that mean for the rest of us. I'm sure he is a good guy with the best of intentions, and I'll not tear anyone down for making a proft from the work. However it depends on the method of sale. E.A. sell his trade fine. We've got professonal sorcerers on thie page who do their business and never ruffle a feather. Why? Because they don't sell overpriced toys and trinkets. They don't hawk their wears on the net with a general disdain for the community. E.A. does. I've never heard a bad word about him personally but I don't like how he runs his business and what it might mean for the wider occult community.
I'm just waiting to see him on a reality show.

Truth be told, I'm not sure...though I don't believe that it'll really have much of an impact on the rest of us. His down to earth personality, when conversed with on a private level, leads me to believe that the theatrics are more Timothy's work than his own. He did fairly well in the Golden Dawn interview, for example, when the discussion headed towards human sacrifice. I surely didn't get the impression that he condoned wanton human sacrifice...but rather, wasn't against targeting someone that deserved it through magickal means. When we have shows like Dexter, where countless people are praising a psychopathic killer that simply managed to curb his desires towards those who deserved it, I don't really see much controversy as long as he doesn't start really going off the deep end.

With that said, I did enjoy your article...seemed pretty fair and balanced. I understand the distaste for the theatrics, but that's just the methodology of a hustler. While it obviously tends to put some off...it also pulls in the demographic he's targeting and ensures he makes a living off it. In this world, everything's for sale...art, flesh, information, everything. What I fail to understand is the huge volume of disgust towards this when we sell, literally, everything else. Like I said previously...there's no limit to the sheer volume of writers and musicians doing the same thing...they just don't use the theatrics that he does. Well, actually, I suppose musicians definitely use the same type of theatrics...more so, it's the writers who don't.

Edited by Tenebrae, 05 August 2014 - 12:43 AM.

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#28 Provenant

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:33 AM

Interestingly in relation to this thread, I had a young man contact me today asking for help with a situation that he was very concerned about. Essentially, the young man told me that he had "studied" with BALG, specifically EAK's former partner Dante Abiel for two years, spending thousands of dollars with them. He also hired Dante to remove an entity, now I don't really know the details of the "entity removal" ... and wouldn't probably share that, due to the nature of the contact from the young man.

But, he paid them $4500 for this "service" ... then later was told by "Dante Abiel" (Andrew Pike) that Dante had decided that the Young Man essentially didn't merit the removal, so he had put it back on. Then the Young Man was later told by someone at BALG, that Dante actually never did the ritual, either the removal or the "put back".

Now, I'm usually one to say that a fool and his money are soon parted ... but this is not just a random con they're running. They are specifically preying on folks who usually are emotionally desperate in some form or other. And, unfortunately, there's likely no recourse for them when they figure out they've been scammed.

Beyond the books and the videos, which yes are sold like sham-wows ... there is a dark underbelly of BALG where they are sucking money out of the gullible through personal consultations, and work for hire. And, then it seems, not even doing the ritual work. Beyond whether a given ritual accomplishes the goal, I know several professional sorcerers and they always perform the work ... usually provide photos and other evidence to their clients that the work was performed.

It's not very secret, that EAK and company built BALG as a money spell. They claim to have an egregore tied into BALG to essentially suck money from their marks.

And the difference between EAK's machine versus mainstream writer's and artists are at least you get the book or the art when you pay your money. Again, the dark underbelly is not EAK's publishing ... but seems to be the services end of things that is relatively hidden unless one joins up on the website.

Edited by Provenant, 05 August 2014 - 02:35 AM.

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#29 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:50 AM

I kind of agree more here with Tenebrae's points. Personally I didn't mind the couple of books I read by Koetting that I mentioned in my first post here and I also got an ok impression of him from the interviews I listened to. The books were good in the sense that if someone new to the subject matter picked them up when first investigating evocation (just as an example) they would have something that could be helpful. I also don't mind anyone selling their books, instructions or whatever they want to sell to whoever wants to buy it. The only problem I have is the fact that the books I read by him offer nothing new to the subjects for anyone who has bothered to actually study and practice magick for more than a couple of years or so. A lot of what is found in Evoking Eternity seems more like re-purposing Joseph Lisiewski's Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation which itself was nothing all that new except that one little novel idea of actually insisting on performing the rituals from grimoires exactly as written. Koetting deviates from that last point a bit but his ideas are similar enough to suspect the influence. Koetting's only "something new" seems to be his packaging which dresses up the magical art of evocation in a typically American style almost like some sort of NLP motivational course to pick up women, or in this case, a demon or two. As I said earlier I find it more amusing than anything else. It's not my taste but power to him for it. BUT, the video I saw not long ago posted here on OC of him performing an evocation and speaking in that digital effect voice was not convincing to me of anything. My question to that is why he needed that effect on the voice. That is why I think some of this showmanship is a put-on and of course it has resulted in exactly what he has probably really intended: gained attention and some publicity in the occult community. You want it to go away? Ignore him and it will.

#30 Tenebrae

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:05 AM

View PostProvenant, on 05 August 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

Interestingly in relation to this thread, I had a young man contact me today asking for help with a situation that he was very concerned about. Essentially, the young man told me that he had "studied" with BALG, specifically EAK's former partner Dante Abiel for two years, spending thousands of dollars with them. He also hired Dante to remove an entity, now I don't really know the details of the "entity removal" ... and wouldn't probably share that, due to the nature of the contact from the young man.

But, he paid them $4500 for this "service" ... then later was told by "Dante Abiel" (Andrew Pike) that Dante had decided that the Young Man essentially didn't merit the removal, so he had put it back on. Then the Young Man was later told by someone at BALG, that Dante actually never did the ritual, either the removal or the "put back".

Now, I'm usually one to say that a fool and his money are soon parted ... but this is not just a random con they're running. They are specifically preying on folks who usually are emotionally desperate in some form or other. And, unfortunately, there's likely no recourse for them when they figure out they've been scammed.

Beyond the books and the videos, which yes are sold like sham-wows ... there is a dark underbelly of BALG where they are sucking money out of the gullible through personal consultations, and work for hire. And, then it seems, not even doing the ritual work. Beyond whether a given ritual accomplishes the goal, I know several professional sorcerers and they always perform the work ... usually provide photos and other evidence to their clients that the work was performed.

It's not very secret, that EAK and company built BALG as a money spell. They claim to have an egregore tied into BALG to essentially suck money from their marks.

And the difference between EAK's machine versus mainstream writer's and artists are at least you get the book or the art when you pay your money. Again, the dark underbelly is not EAK's publishing ... but seems to be the services end of things that is relatively hidden unless one joins up on the website.

Dante Abiel is no longer with BALG.

I joined the site before he "left" but at a point where he didn't appear to have much of a presence. I know very little about him beyond his absolutely hilariously-theatrical-cemetery video that I implore you to watch immediately. With that said, some of the members stand by his legitimacy and express that they obtained spectacular results through his services...while others paint a picture similar to the individual you spoke of. While browsing the BALG facebook, I noticed someone posting about Dante and saying that they failed to receive results from their purchase and that attempts to contact him were met with procrastination and apathy towards the lack of results. Eric, in turn, expressed concerns and then reassured the individual that Dante knows what he's doing and that he was very disappointed to hear that the client wasn't pleased. This prompted the very same individual to assure Eric that he harbored no ill will and simply should have purchased from him directly rather than gone to Dante.

I have absolutely no idea why Dante Abiel left BALG, but judging from the experiences of the one you spoke with and that individual who's comment I read...there's a possibility that he was either fired for his apathetic approach, or left when Eric told him that he had to step his game up because of the negative feedback. Needless to say, he deleted his Facebook and made a new one before liking the E.A. Meme page on Facebook and chuckling around with folks there. So, whatever the reason, it doesn't appear as though the parting was on good terms. Again, I could be wrong...but we just don't know because Eric is a smart cookie and doesn't address controversy of that nature. Again, great hustler methodology.

I am, however, considerably familiar with Scarlet...we've known each other for a pretty significant period of time. Judging from her personality, I have little doubt that Nate will work his ass off to provide the results he's being hired for. I don't know anything about Alex beyond the forums...so I can't really comment beyond not hearing anything negative about him.

Within art and music, yes...you're generally paying for a solid product rather than an intangible service. Personally, I too prefer a physical transaction; this is why I'm making my Fear Fetishes. As physical vessels for the imbued properties...I believe that those who purchase from me will be getting a lot more than they would from a simple transaction of intangible service. They'll be getting a one of a kind art piece and a physical embodiment of the magickal properties as a means to psychologically reinforce these properties...as is the nature of fetishes. With that said, however, there are plenty of services in our world that are intangible: private tutors, martial arts instructors, so on and so forth. What defines the authenticity of these individuals is their ability to provide the desired results that they're selling. So...if Eric, Alex, and Nate are all providing the results that they're being paid for, there's really no reason to demonize what they're doing because they're providing a valid service...or at least an extremely effective placebo that provides the customer with their desired result regardless.

With Dante Abiel, this doesn't appear to have been the case...and that may be why he's no longer with BALG, rather than still charging $4500 for his services.

View PostNalyd Khezr Bey, on 05 August 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

I kind of agree more here with Tenebrae's points. Personally I didn't mind the couple of books I read by Koetting that I mentioned in my first post here and I also got an ok impression of him from the interviews I listened to. The books were good in the sense that if someone new to the subject matter picked them up when first investigating evocation (just as an example) they would have something that could be helpful. I also don't mind anyone selling their books, instructions or whatever they want to sell to whoever wants to buy it. The only problem I have is the fact that the books I read by him offer nothing new to the subjects for anyone who has bothered to actually study and practice magick for more than a couple of years or so. A lot of what is found in Evoking Eternity seems more like re-purposing Joseph Lisiewski's Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation which itself was nothing all that new except that one little novel idea of actually insisting on performing the rituals from grimoires exactly as written. Koetting deviates from that last point a bit but his ideas are similar enough to suspect the influence. Koetting's only "something new" seems to be his packaging which dresses up the magical art of evocation in a typically American style almost like some sort of NLP motivational course to pick up women, or in this case, a demon or two. As I said earlier I find it more amusing than anything else. It's not my taste but power to him for it. BUT, the video I saw not long ago posted here on OC of him performing an evocation and speaking in that digital effect voice was not convincing to me of anything. My question to that is why he needed that effect on the voice. That is why I think some of this showmanship is a put-on and of course it has resulted in exactly what he has probably really intended: gained attention and some publicity in the occult community. You want it to go away? Ignore him and it will.

Yeah, I can't comment on the books because I haven't read them...nor am I well versed on occult literature to begin with. Those who know me best here on the forums know that I work primarily with my own paradigm and very little with anything external. So, it's very likely that anything written within those books would be new to my eyes simply because I haven't delved outside my own thought process deep enough to know anything beyond a surface level; I've never needed to. This doesn't mean that I won't do so eventually...just that I'm pretty absorbed in my own thoughts and haven't really gotten around to slithering into the thoughts of others whom are more well known through their literature. I get a lot of people who compare my rants to those of Aleister Crowley...but I've never actually read a single thing from him; he'll probably be my first choice in literature though because of those comparisons.

With that said, the showman attitude seems geared towards luring in those who have been struggling, procrastinating, lazy, or simply curious of what he's all about. For those individuals, judging from how venomously his community defends him against others, it seems to work out quite well by providing them with a short cut...giving them the information they need in a quick and easy source, for the costs attached. Like I said previously, all of us here know that you don't require anyone's opinions to delve into magick...that you can ascend and grow in power through your own volition. Some people like to pay to do things quickly though...that's how most of your free based games generate profits too!

Doesn't mean that you can't get anything out of them though...even if you feel that the content is, primarily, composed of things that anyone who has spent the time would already know. Ultimately, you're still reading occult material from the perspective of another individual and those experiences could always help one take a look at things differently. Now, does the possibility of insight derived through external perceptions justify the costs to you? That's for you to decide, and exactly why I haven't yet purchased any books...let alone his.

In my eyes, all that matters is the legitimacy. If people are pleased with their results, from purchased books or services, then that's all that really matters isn't it?

Edited by Tenebrae, 05 August 2014 - 07:24 AM.

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#31 TheCusp

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:32 AM

Everyone always "blames" EA for the aggressive commercial aspect, but he's just the front man. It's actually the guy with the dreads, Timothy, who's the marketing genius.

http://becomealiving...present-future/

Edited by TheCusp, 05 August 2014 - 11:32 AM.

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#32 Curious Cat

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostProvenant, on 05 August 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

Interestingly in relation to this thread, I had a young man contact me today asking for help with a situation that he was very concerned about. Essentially, the young man told me that he had "studied" with BALG, specifically EAK's former partner Dante Abiel for two years, spending thousands of dollars with them. He also hired Dante to remove an entity, now I don't really know the details of the "entity removal" ... and wouldn't probably share that, due to the nature of the contact from the young man.

But, he paid them $4500 for this "service" ... then later was told by "Dante Abiel" (Andrew Pike) that Dante had decided that the Young Man essentially didn't merit the removal, so he had put it back on. Then the Young Man was later told by someone at BALG, that Dante actually never did the ritual, either the removal or the "put back".


If that is true, then I feel very sorry for the person. He could have used the money and gone to Bhutan where a high level lama would have done a ritual with him present that would have gotten rid of whatever influence he believed was holding down. He would have had the experience of a lifetime as well since Bhutan is supposed to be a lovely country to visit.

Hell, with $4,500 he could have gone to quite a few places in the Americas where he could have found well known shamans that would have helped him as well.

@Void
This thread and your analysis of it totally made me think of Supply-Side Jesus. If you haven't seen it, it's worth a watch.

https://www.youtube....h?v=Gc-LJ_3VbUA

#33 voidgazing

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:50 PM

Quote

So, what music and storytelling are you referring to when trying to make the comparison here...because most artists make money through their talent. I mean, I'm pretty sure that even Beethoven performed for a living did he not? You're giving me examples of things that you believe to be akin to magick and these things are sold by the majority who possess the talent. It's rare that you'll come across exceptions; even more rare when these exceptions are actually good.

Its what it does to those things. A story told for the sake of the story or a song made for its own sake are better in general than those crafted with the bottom line in mind. I've no objection to anyone making money from their art- because they are embedded within a capitalist system, and because it takes a lot of time and dedication to get good at these things, there isn't much of a choice there. What I object to is when the art itself is perverted- when money is the primary and the art is secondary.

Hollywood vomits the results at us each day. Publishers too- Twilight, Fifty Shades of Grey. Compare these to Steinbeck or even Salvatore. In music as well.

Now, the problem is that these things serve us in the same capacity the served our forebears- they are the way we transmit the sacred knowledges of the soul. I don't have a less new agey way to say that handy. When they are corrupted by serving a purpose other than that, it corrupts us all.

You know what I'm talkin about- you make those fear stones, and they are perfect because they are pure. You want to make a living at it and I very much hope you do.

Now, will you make one, I dunno? A little less fearey? Cuter? Try doing something more Hello Kitty with them, they'll sell better according to Corporate. We're thinking of doing a Fisher Price line.

You see the problem doing this with magic, yes?
This is a postcard sent from the dining room of the HMS Russel's Teapot. Wish you were here- the band is spot on tonight, and we're having "all the way down" turtle soup!

#34 Tenebrae

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:48 PM

View PostTheCusp, on 05 August 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Everyone always "blames" EA for the aggressive commercial aspect, but he's just the front man. It's actually the guy with the dreads, Timothy, who's the marketing genius.

http://becomealiving...present-future/

Yeah...

Timothy is all about the glamor...

I have nothing against the guy, because he's another I know very little about like Alex, but you really only have to see his photos on Facebook to suspect that he might be the source of the theatrics...and, as TheCusp stated, he's the marketing man.

View PostCurious Cat, on 05 August 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

If that is true, then I feel very sorry for the person. He could have used the money and gone to Bhutan where a high level lama would have done a ritual with him present that would have gotten rid of whatever influence he believed was holding down. He would have had the experience of a lifetime as well since Bhutan is supposed to be a lovely country to visit.

Hell, with $4,500 he could have gone to quite a few places in the Americas where he could have found well known shamans that would have helped him as well.

@Void
This thread and your analysis of it totally made me think of Supply-Side Jesus. If you haven't seen it, it's worth a watch.

https://www.youtube....h?v=Gc-LJ_3VbUA

There is so much I could do with $4,500.

Yeah, I would never pay that much for the services of another individual...but that's just not the type of person I am. It's very unlikely that I'd pay for the intangible services of another at all.

View Postvoidgazing, on 05 August 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Its what it does to those things. A story told for the sake of the story or a song made for its own sake are better in general than those crafted with the bottom line in mind. I've no objection to anyone making money from their art- because they are embedded within a capitalist system, and because it takes a lot of time and dedication to get good at these things, there isn't much of a choice there. What I object to is when the art itself is perverted- when money is the primary and the art is secondary.

Hollywood vomits the results at us each day. Publishers too- Twilight, Fifty Shades of Grey. Compare these to Steinbeck or even Salvatore. In music as well.

Now, the problem is that these things serve us in the same capacity the served our forebears- they are the way we transmit the sacred knowledges of the soul. I don't have a less new agey way to say that handy. When they are corrupted by serving a purpose other than that, it corrupts us all.

You know what I'm talkin about- you make those fear stones, and they are perfect because they are pure. You want to make a living at it and I very much hope you do.

Now, will you make one, I dunno? A little less fearey? Cuter? Try doing something more Hello Kitty with them, they'll sell better according to Corporate. We're thinking of doing a Fisher Price line.

You see the problem doing this with magic, yes?

Well, now you're making assumptions based upon the theatrics alone aren't you?

Just because he's a hustler doesn't, necessarily, invalidate his passion and dedication to the work he provides. When someone aggressively pursue a career doing what they love, that doesn't change the fact that they love doing it. I've already completed one Fear Stone...I simply have to imbue it and then get to selling the piece. Either way, let's say I began some sort of aggressive marketing campaign or, hell, lets say that I managed to get my pieces sold through BALG itself... Would that change the fact that my Fear Stones are pure just because of the salesmanship used to get them out there?

What matters isn't the theatrics involved, the salesmanship, it's the product provided isn't it?

Now, when it comes to the augmentation of the product for the sake of higher sales...I kind of see your point. However, this works under the belief that there is but one truth and that these magickal systems aren't malleable. We know that this isn't the cause, you can manipulate and spin these practices in a myriad of ways in order to obtain results...some better than others. Now, does he manipulate the actual product to produce higher sales? I don't know...I haven't purchased any of the material and just hang around on the forums and watch released videos. Even if I did own these books, I wouldn't know simply because my knowledge is all internal rather than of the external opinions of others.

Even if it has been, however, does it really matter so long as it works? That's the important thing here...that it works. Now, how far is Eric willing to go in terms of augmentation of his work to increase those sales? Well, judging from the fact that his reputation holds significant importance to the continuation of those sales, I'd imagine that he's willing to go only as far as to present an enticing spin on the material that doesn't compromise its legitimacy. Otherwise, his reputation will be damaged and he'll be labeled a charlatan...which means a drastic decrease in sales. Taking that into consideration, combined with his personality while speaking to him in private, I really don't think he's the type to go beyond that.

From my experiences, the majority of those who don't like him admit that he knows what he's talking about and that their primary gripe is with the salesmanship itself: such as the one moderator off the E.A. Koetting Memes page on Facebook. If that's truly the case, and he's providing a genuine product/service, it's a very trivial reason...don't you agree?

Edited by Tenebrae, 06 August 2014 - 05:57 PM.

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#35 TheCusp

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:58 AM

Listen to this at the 5:28 mark, and tell me if that sounds familiar. :)

https://www.youtube....e&v=nzxQ-eLeS5Y
“Come in close. Closer. Because the more you think you see, the easier it’ll be to fool you. Because what is seeing? You’re looking, but what you’re really doing is filtering, interpreting, searching for meaning. My job? To take that most precious of gifts you give me, your attention, and use it against you.” - Now You See Me

#36 Tenebrae

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 04:54 AM

View PostTheCusp, on 18 November 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Listen to this at the 5:28 mark, and tell me if that sounds familiar. :)

https://www.youtube....e&v=nzxQ-eLeS5Y

Indeed so.

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#37 SuccubusSherry

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 08:12 AM

This brings back memories of the time I started a discussion about an E A Koetting video on this forum, and then suddenly noticed to my puzzlement that when I brought the link up on the screen again it had messages like 'become a living god' on it. I didn't want people to click my link and see that, but couldn't get it to go away.

No-one has mentioned Azazel. I'm unworldly in some ways and more interested in entities than human beings, and when I hear the name EA Koetting all I can think of is Azazel. He was pretty good at marketing himself even before Koetting came along- remember the feature film 'Fallen' which is about Azazel? That was how I heard about him: my husband said,"you really must watch this film, it's about a demon with a very noble- sounding name." That led to altogether too much contact with Azazel for a while! Do you remember how in the film people become disgraced and then commit suicide? During the time I was in contact with him, a colleague who worked at a branch office of the place where I worked was disgraced,and committed suicide. We all attended a memorial service, during which the angels who were presiding at the service informed me with great indignation that there was a connection with my imprudent association with Azazel.

I know I'm going off-topic but it shouldn't be because Koetting's aggressive marketing techniques could be Azazel's idea.

#38 Nalyd Khezr Bey

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:40 PM

Sherry, I didn't want to derail this discussion so I created a new topic based on something you said there that caught my own interest, see HERE.





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