Jump to content


- - - - -

Australian Satanism + the Temple of THEM


108 replies to this topic

#41 enelesmada

    Member

  • Members
  • 46 posts

Posted 30 March 2010 - 02:02 AM

http://au.groups.yah...up/Sinister101/

#42 Starbeast

    Suspended

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts

Posted 30 March 2010 - 02:32 AM

enelesmada said:


Ahhh. Thank you. I may just have a look here :)

:cool: 37
AwesomeJon 37 unveiled: 04/06/10...the Conversation continues :) Xeper is no longer a useful concept - but Awesome still is.

Nothing stops me! I've got an awesome 'tude for an awesome dude and I'm actually seriously practicing...the world is within my grasp!

Call me Jon ^^

http://liberverendus.wordpress.com/ The action happens here....in the Book of Awesome! :D

And always remember...keep it heavy! \m/\m/

#43 ThoTh

    Board Member

  • Board of Directors
  • 97 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 31 March 2010 - 02:10 AM

thank you starbeast, and thank you enelsemada for posting the link.

However my question remains with regard to the IOT and the ONA - why seek absolute chaos? What of value is absolutely chaotic? Or are we speaking of "formless and void" rather than a swirling miasma of random thrashing in the dark?

Again, would prefer to speak with you in pm's?

#44 ThoTh

    Board Member

  • Board of Directors
  • 97 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 31 March 2010 - 03:02 AM

Actually, nevermind the pm, here's what I think.

I would suggest that the founders have surrounded themselves with forms and attachments that give them no choice. For a while I believed the ona was heading toward a similar direction as my own, a reductionist vaccuum away from the clutter of the ego where things - nay, life - could be made clear. For a while, the Temple of THEM and its work complimented this direction and I strived to strip away the supports of language, meaning, abstraction, form, ego, objectivity and so on to achieve a place closer to where I am now. But the ona did a 180 with the wsa, and has chosen to re-enshrine ego - undoing the careful work and aim these reductions sought to find the source of ourselves and our things, and again treat such manifestations as real without questioning them.

This was the cause of my separation from the ona - since my work involves reaching an absence of the ego and all the forms and trappings that inhibit that. Moreover, in re-enshrining the worship of ego the ona and others like it have become super-sensitive and touchy, just like the individual ego we each possess - evident in their vehement and personal-based attacks on those who disagree with them.

Thus, any discussion is futile and doomed to a trade of emotion, since the ona desires to hold up various webs of forms and values as self-evident, not merely subjective - and all communication from such a position is only ever egoic, seeking to defend its values and forms, as the ego naturally does.
But, this state is from my point of view, an obscuration of the Sinister, a psychic step backward, and just the thrashing of another form that fears to admit its universal source lies in fear. The ego doesn't want to know what comes before it - what else there might be beside it - it gets carried away with its illusions and high on its own sense of power. The world and its architecture supports and encourages the ego and so it thrives and reigns as a supreme arch-psychosis. It's not a nice thing to face - or get past - and it generally hates all attempts that try. But what I am looking for is beneath its tyranny - and maybe, there is nothing past it, but I must get past it whatever it takes, to see for myself.

In this, the smaller the amount of mental and metaphysical catalogues created by answering questions or dealing with extraneous, incidental forms that arise through language and morality and subjective challenges from other egos - the better. The main problem with my research is that the ego is ultra-narcissistic. Many if not most ego's will probably interpret my approach as rude specifically because I am not speaking directly to IT. It is unfortunate too, that so many thick layers of meaning, form, abstraction, morality and so on have encrusted the ego a thousand miles deep in the human psyche - because although language obscures - it is still the only way to reach the ego, undo these knots that bind, and persuade the ego to co-operate.

My research could not be continued without a severance to all forms and individuals (and the barriers and tools of the ego) because they each have something the ego wants to protect; which is fine on some levels; but I will never again allow them to prevent me from doing what is necessary to get to the heart of life beneath the noisy clutter of tradition and biological habit.

Edited by ThoTh, 31 March 2010 - 03:04 AM.
spelling :)


#45 Starbeast

    Suspended

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts

Posted 31 March 2010 - 03:13 AM

ThoTh said:

Actually, nevermind the pm, here's what I think.

I would suggest that the founders have surrounded themselves with forms and attachments that give them no choice. For a while I believed the ona was heading toward a similar direction as my own, a reductionist vaccuum away from the clutter of the ego where things - nay, life - could be made clear. For a while, the Temple of THEM and its work complimented this direction and I strived to strip away the supports of language, meaning, abstraction, form, ego, objectivity and so on to achieve a place closer to where I am now. But the ona did a 180 with the wsa, and has chosen to re-enshrine ego - undoing the careful work and aim these reductions sought to find the source of ourselves and our things, and again treat such manifestations as real without questioning them.

This was the cause of my separation from the ona - since my work involves reaching an absence of the ego and all the forms and trappings that inhibit that. Moreover, in re-enshrining the worship of ego the ona and others like it have become super-sensitive and touchy, just like the individual ego we each possess - evident in their vehement and personal-based attacks on those who disagree with them.

Thus, any discussion is futile and doomed to a trade of emotion, since the ona desires to hold up various webs of forms and values as self-evident, not merely subjective - and all communication from such a position is only ever egoic, seeking to defend its values and forms, as the ego naturally does.
But, this state is from my point of view, an obscuration of the Sinister, a psychic step backward, and just the thrashing of another form that fears to admit its universal source lies in fear. The ego doesn't want to know what comes before it - what else there might be beside it - it gets carried away with its illusions and high on its own sense of power. The world and its architecture supports and encourages the ego and so it thrives and reigns as a supreme arch-psychosis. It's not a nice thing to face - or get past - and it generally hates all attempts that try. But what I am looking for is beneath its tyranny - and maybe, there is nothing past it, but I must get past it whatever it takes, to see for myself.

In this, the smaller the amount of mental and metaphysical catalogues created by answering questions or dealing with extraneous, incidental forms that arise through language and morality and subjective challenges from other egos - the better. The main problem with my research is that the ego is ultra-narcissistic. Many if not most ego's will probably interpret my approach as rude specifically because I am not speaking directly to IT. It is unfortunate too, that so many thick layers of meaning, form, abstraction, morality and so on have encrusted the ego a thousand miles deep in the human psyche - because although language obscures - it is still the only way to reach the ego, undo these knots that bind, and persuade the ego to co-operate.

My research could not be continued without a severance to all forms and individuals (and the barriers and tools of the ego) because they each have something the ego wants to protect; which is fine on some levels; but I will never again allow them to prevent me from doing what is necessary to get to the heart of life beneath the noisy clutter of tradition and biological habit.

You, my friend, are speaking like a chaos mage. I'm solitary for this exact reason - too many losers messing around with ego and drama, not development. So I'm missing the secrets that an order has to share - so be it. I'll find my own way, and fuck the rest. Which is what I think you're saying, only a bit more obscurely :) An idea might be to begin by reducing forms of language - forms of thought will soon follow ;)

:cool: 37
AwesomeJon 37 unveiled: 04/06/10...the Conversation continues :) Xeper is no longer a useful concept - but Awesome still is.

Nothing stops me! I've got an awesome 'tude for an awesome dude and I'm actually seriously practicing...the world is within my grasp!

Call me Jon ^^

http://liberverendus.wordpress.com/ The action happens here....in the Book of Awesome! :D

And always remember...keep it heavy! \m/\m/

#46 Jastiv

    Member

  • Old Timers
  • 121 posts
  • LocationNew England

Posted 31 March 2010 - 09:22 AM

I always thought that whole "egolessness" idea was a very Right Hand Path idea.

I'm not interested in egolessness. You need an ego to function on the mundane. Without a healthy ego, you can not enjoy the results of your magick. Therefore that whole "egolessness" goal seems like an entire waste. The more it is about egos and making them larger and more powerful, the better a path it is going to be. Now, I don't want my ego to be squashed down to nothing, or be told how unworthy I am all the time like in some slave cult. I always though the left hand path was about the opposite of that.

#47 voidgazing

    Moderator

  • Owner
  • 4,128 posts

Posted 31 March 2010 - 03:06 PM

I think I see where Jen is comin from (correct me if I'm wrong).

First, RHP 'egolessness' could be defined as surrender to God. That is not what is being discussed here.

Eastern egolessness, on the other hand, is about giving up falsehoods and perceiving that your ego is a construct of limited utility; it isn't good or bad, per se, but it is what it is and only goes so far. This is neither RHP or LHP; that distinction becomes meaningless in this context.

There is a difference between having an ego and using it as a tool and being the tool of your ego. Are you driven by desires, or do you drive them? Are you a twitching biological thing that can be defined by stimulus and response? Do you know exactly why you do everything you do? Are you capable of doing whatever you want, do you flow like water and pass like wind, float like a butterfly and sting like a bee?

Are you a creature of Will?

To be such, paradoxically for those on the LHP, seems to require one to go beyond ego. Deifying the self is a tricksome business; you don't want to get caught up in your own hype and start thinking you are perfect as you are. You are not. This is like saying "man, this operating system may malfunction all the damn time but it is the BEST! THE BEST! I worship this broken thing!" Deciding to become a god is where you start, not where you end, is what I'm saying. And one of the steps is realizing your ego is just a thing, a computer program that does not comprehend but only follows patterns.

Stand behind that, above or below it. Laugh at it, or cry. At this point one can reshape it in whatever way is deemed appropriate.

#48 Starbeast

    Suspended

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts

Posted 31 March 2010 - 03:28 PM

voidgazing said:

I think I see where Jen is comin from (correct me if I'm wrong).

First, RHP 'egolessness' could be defined as surrender to God. That is not what is being discussed here.

Eastern egolessness, on the other hand, is about giving up falsehoods and perceiving that your ego is a construct of limited utility; it isn't good or bad, per se, but it is what it is and only goes so far. This is neither RHP or LHP; that distinction becomes meaningless in this context.

There is a difference between having an ego and using it as a tool and being the tool of your ego. Are you driven by desires, or do you drive them? Are you a twitching biological thing that can be defined by stimulus and response? Do you know exactly why you do everything you do? Are you capable of doing whatever you want, do you flow like water and pass like wind, float like a butterfly and sting like a bee?

Are you a creature of Will?

To be such, paradoxically for those on the LHP, seems to require one to go beyond ego. Deifying the self is a tricksome business; you don't want to get caught up in your own hype and start thinking you are perfect as you are. You are not. This is like saying "man, this operating system may malfunction all the damn time but it is the BEST! THE BEST! I worship this broken thing!" Deciding to become a god is where you start, not where you end, is what I'm saying. And one of the steps is realizing your ego is just a thing, a computer program that does not comprehend but only follows patterns.

Stand behind that, above or below it. Laugh at it, or cry. At this point one can reshape it in whatever way is deemed appropriate.

Yeah - that's how I see destruction of the ego. It's similar to a lot of RHP teachings, but once you carve away the biological and psychological crap, you'll be able to know what you really want and go for it with all your power.

:cool: 37
AwesomeJon 37 unveiled: 04/06/10...the Conversation continues :) Xeper is no longer a useful concept - but Awesome still is.

Nothing stops me! I've got an awesome 'tude for an awesome dude and I'm actually seriously practicing...the world is within my grasp!

Call me Jon ^^

http://liberverendus.wordpress.com/ The action happens here....in the Book of Awesome! :D

And always remember...keep it heavy! \m/\m/

#49 ThoTh

    Board Member

  • Board of Directors
  • 97 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:37 AM

by W. Rayne (formerly Ryan Anschauung)

http://blackglyph.wo...-now-available/

This is my most ambitious project to date and contains the essence of my present insight (2010) into the physis of life.

#50 Starbeast

    Suspended

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts

Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:50 AM

ThoTh said:

by W. Rayne (formerly Ryan Anschauung)

http://blackglyph.wo...-now-available/

This is my most ambitious project to date and contains the essence of my present insight (2010) into the physis of life.

You have a blog? I will so totally add you to my blogroll now :D Awesome, man. I'll look at it.

:cool: 37
AwesomeJon 37 unveiled: 04/06/10...the Conversation continues :) Xeper is no longer a useful concept - but Awesome still is.

Nothing stops me! I've got an awesome 'tude for an awesome dude and I'm actually seriously practicing...the world is within my grasp!

Call me Jon ^^

http://liberverendus.wordpress.com/ The action happens here....in the Book of Awesome! :D

And always remember...keep it heavy! \m/\m/

#51 ThoTh

    Board Member

  • Board of Directors
  • 97 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 02 April 2010 - 01:29 AM

If I'd known you wanted them - I'd have supplied them earlier.
I actually have several.

http://templeofthem.wordpress.com/

Mostly holds the first five chapters of Sorcery texts by Sath and I maintain it, and use it to post updates on what I'm up to.


http://ryananschauung.wordpress.com/

Contains all my work (some 100 manuscripts and books and images etc) with ONA/THEM/ToB etc over the last ten years under various pseudonyms as well as used to post updates. You'd probably find this one useful as regards what I have had to say for myself.


http://blackglyph.wordpress.com/

A blog where I am offering hand-printed copies of unique books and materials relating to ToB, ONA, THEM, and myself.


http://stores.lulu.com/the_nonagon

An older store where I have stored all the ONA/THEM materials for others to download freely.


I also run two groups,

http://au.groups.yah...up/Sinister101/

This is where I am mostly writing from nowadays. And trying to elaborate on my individualosophy. You're welcome to drop in and take a look.


http://au.groups.yah...up/templeofthem

This is the Temple of THEM yahoo group now owned by Sath but still maintained when it needs it, by myself, since Sath shuns computers.

#52 Starbeast

    Suspended

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts

Posted 02 April 2010 - 04:49 AM

ThoTh said:

If I'd known you wanted them - I'd have supplied them earlier.
I actually have several.

http://templeofthem.wordpress.com/

Mostly holds the first five chapters of Sorcery texts by Sath and I maintain it, and use it to post updates on what I'm up to.


http://ryananschauung.wordpress.com/

Contains all my work (some 100 manuscripts and books and images etc) with ONA/THEM/ToB etc over the last ten years under various pseudonyms as well as used to post updates. You'd probably find this one useful as regards what I have had to say for myself.


http://blackglyph.wordpress.com/

A blog where I am offering hand-printed copies of unique books and materials relating to ToB, ONA, THEM, and myself.


http://stores.lulu.com/the_nonagon

An older store where I have stored all the ONA/THEM materials for others to download freely.


I also run two groups,

http://au.groups.yah...up/Sinister101/

This is where I am mostly writing from nowadays. And trying to elaborate on my individualosophy. You're welcome to drop in and take a look.


http://au.groups.yah...up/templeofthem

This is the Temple of THEM yahoo group now owned by Sath but still maintained when it needs it, by myself, since Sath shuns computers.

Cryptic pronouncements do me very little good lol...I'd rather communicate like this. Didn't help I'd been arguing with this crazy person on IRC who was just outright weird with her LHPness for the last few days before that - but as always in cases like this, I reach an equilibrium and then discussion happens. Hegelian Dialectic, seen through the eyes of a rowdy young buck :D

I'll check these out - and dig into Sinister101. At the very least, events here have transpired to get me interested in the ONA and similar subjects - it's quite cool how that worked out.

:cool: 37
AwesomeJon 37 unveiled: 04/06/10...the Conversation continues :) Xeper is no longer a useful concept - but Awesome still is.

Nothing stops me! I've got an awesome 'tude for an awesome dude and I'm actually seriously practicing...the world is within my grasp!

Call me Jon ^^

http://liberverendus.wordpress.com/ The action happens here....in the Book of Awesome! :D

And always remember...keep it heavy! \m/\m/

#53 Qryztufre

    Administrator

  • Owner
  • 6,558 posts

Posted 02 April 2010 - 04:47 PM

ThoTh said:

Again, would prefer to speak with you in pm's?

ThoTh said:

Actually, nevermind the pm, here's what I think.

Thanks for keeping the discussion public on this public discussion board ;)

When you post in threads, the world becomes enlightened when you post in private two minds remain closed!

#54 Nahemah

    Senior Member

  • Old Timers
  • 247 posts

Posted 02 April 2010 - 06:52 PM

As Q says,this is an interesting discussion and others can follow it,as long as it's here on the forum.I am paying attention too.Please don't restrict this to private conversation.
http://www.magickcir....com/heretic667




"he lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."
[Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.]

#55 Starbeast

    Suspended

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts

Posted 03 April 2010 - 04:07 AM

Nahemah said:

As Q says,this is an interesting discussion and others can follow it,as long as it's here on the forum.I am paying attention too.Please don't restrict this to private conversation.

I have no intention to ^^ I like Thoth now...but we gotta keep it all greater-goody now. Free information, that's my rallying cry :D Memes for the mighty! :P

:cool: 37
AwesomeJon 37 unveiled: 04/06/10...the Conversation continues :) Xeper is no longer a useful concept - but Awesome still is.

Nothing stops me! I've got an awesome 'tude for an awesome dude and I'm actually seriously practicing...the world is within my grasp!

Call me Jon ^^

http://liberverendus.wordpress.com/ The action happens here....in the Book of Awesome! :D

And always remember...keep it heavy! \m/\m/

#56 ThoTh

    Board Member

  • Board of Directors
  • 97 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 03 April 2010 - 07:18 AM

Well thanks you two for taking an interest in what we have to say.

There is a similar conversation like this, a "THEM thread" if you like, though with different effects, going on over at the 600 club. Someone there actually said the same thing about not making it private; it's not that I want to keep others from hearing what I have to say as much as it is not wanting to be misunderstood by having others re-translate what I was trying to say - that prompts me to go 1-on-1 with someone in a private discussion.

If I can just quickly reply to a couple of things people said - I liked what you said voidgazing - you captured sentiments of my own thoughts toward ego.

Jastiv - I agree with you regarding egolessness - but feel RHP and LHP are abstract tensions rather than actual tensions, to some extent so too with ego and its absence, so I don't make the distinction in approach as sharply as you might have. But pursuing "egolessness", like anything else I do is bound to lead somewhere else for me. And as I said elsewhere, I might pause to take a breath but it doesn't mean I've finished the race. Everything I've done so far has lead me to somewhere else and I suspect this will be the same. It's not that I don't have conviction in what I've said - merely that I know conviction is a temporary thing - I've been through too many mind-sets to believe too strongly in the conclusions of my dexter. And y'know, it's likely that the ego cannot be written about without fully employing it, since talking about its absence is still talking about it, which only makes the exercise in question futile :P But my work does not seek the destruction of the ego or its erasure or to deny it, - I fully understand and employ the benefits of my ego. Perhaps to understand it better I have tried some novel approaches.

And finally, though it seems ideal to give everything away for free - and I have tried to be accomodating in this - I still require some money to survive and meet basic living costs and hope to be able to make what I need to continue my interests from my writing;- since what I do with it enables me to gain further insights. Becoming any sort of financially secure established writer has proved somewhat more difficult than first envisioned though and I still struggle with the conflict over giving it all away freely and yet making enough to continue doing what I do. I believe there has to be some balance otherwise I can't keep writing. So I sell some things, whilst sharing what I have to say in general with anyone willing to listen. Writing's a privilege for me, not a right and unfortunately, privileges cost money. *shrug*

#57 voidgazing

    Moderator

  • Owner
  • 4,128 posts

Posted 03 April 2010 - 10:02 PM

Have you considered embedding your concepts in works of fiction? These can bring you money and still disseminate your ideas like little bombs of enlightenment.

#58 Starbeast

    Suspended

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,738 posts

Posted 03 April 2010 - 11:40 PM

voidgazing said:

Have you considered embedding your concepts in works of fiction? These can bring you money and still disseminate your ideas like little bombs of enlightenment.

I second this epic idea! ;)

:cool: 37
AwesomeJon 37 unveiled: 04/06/10...the Conversation continues :) Xeper is no longer a useful concept - but Awesome still is.

Nothing stops me! I've got an awesome 'tude for an awesome dude and I'm actually seriously practicing...the world is within my grasp!

Call me Jon ^^

http://liberverendus.wordpress.com/ The action happens here....in the Book of Awesome! :D

And always remember...keep it heavy! \m/\m/

#59 ThoTh

    Board Member

  • Board of Directors
  • 97 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 04 April 2010 - 03:00 AM

voidgazing said:

Have you considered embedding your concepts in works of fiction? These can bring you money and still disseminate your ideas like little bombs of enlightenment.

Hi there,
Yes actually, a few times. i.e. I wrote 'HEL' for the ONA and it made me some cash when I sold it.

I also wrote 'SubRosa', a Sinister play for my naos tarot cards which was a psychodrama to relate the concept of Vindex.

And peaSe lovE and munGbeans to explain the Tempel ov Blood, for instance.

Though these are much older works, now.

I'm actually in the middle of attempting to write my own fictional story and am 5 chapters in; but rather than pepper it with insights like the Celestine Prophecy, I'm trying to convey something in its totality and in making the issue it deals with available and conscious in people well before it is supposed to be. Yeah I don't mean to be cryptic - I have to be - you can't sell something if you break any number of literary rules with fiction, so I have to be careful.

In some sense I have been successful enough in bursts to keep my head above water or indulge in my past-times using money I have made from my work, but to become established requires an agent. I tried a few years ago to get one of these and had a lot of trouble. Look, it's really an aside problem of mine, and I really do appreciate the encouragement; but I feel like I'm whining now and moving away from the point of this thread. If anyone wants to help support and proliferate my work, then I guess, please occasionally buy it. lol.

#60 ThoTh

    Board Member

  • Board of Directors
  • 97 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 04 April 2010 - 03:03 AM

Starbeast said:

I second this epic idea! ;)

:cool: 37

Sorry, Liber Verendus. Can't change the subject heading.

I don't want to piss in your pocket, but I really like the way you handle concepts. I also don't want to colour what you do by translating it, but it's almost like you absorb them as fully as possible and then banish them with laughter. It's an approach I can appreciate. Can I add your blog to the Temple of THEM's main page?





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users